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Stevens Rally Indicator and '69 Z-28 Camaro
Road Rally eNews - January 2015  
Your RoadRally Roundup of News, Views, and How-Tos
ROUTES TO CLICK In The January RReNews

Words from the WheelWordsfromWheel 

SCCA Wire Wheel

New Year Greetings!

 

To update everyone on my position change at the SCCA National  Office in Topeka. I have moved to Member services, however my duties stay the same as I still sanction events and process the audits. Same duties, new desk AND a window!
 
My email is still the same, my ext 331 remains the same at 800-770-2055. My work hours are 7:00am to 3:30pm CDT.
 
Please don't hesitate to call with any questions. If I don't know the answer I will find out or get you the to person who does know the answer!
 
Need the new SCCA sanction and audit forms? Click these links and you'll have the pdf-file:
An item of interest is that 2015 RoadRally National events have had a change to the sanction fee. National events are $10 per car with no $100 minimum amount due!

Thanks and let's get to Rallying! 
Deena Rowland
SCCA - Member Services
6620 SE Dwight St, Topeka, KS 66619   1-800-770-2055 ext 331

(Fax) 785-861-1731 


From the RReNews RReNewsHQHeadquarters in the Arctic
Back to Anchortown! 
The new year has come, and we will soon be into the second month of 2015. When I was fifteen, my Gpa, a farmer and factory-worker in central Wisconsin, told me, "Every year you get older - a day is like a month on the calendar." While I loved and respected my Gpa, I didn't believe him then. Now? Every day does seem to be like a week of the calendar, ha! And as I ramp up in age...I think I'll find that he was right those many years ago!

With a look to the new year, I'll again take the time to thank those of you who have chosen to support our efforts - through your email after you had received the latest edition, the sending along of email addresses to expose RReNews to fellow rally enthusiasts, and I offer a heartfelt thank you to those of you who have been faithful with your contributions.

You have read my writing and my wonderment if anyone is out there reading RReNews? I have to share that I was recently gobsmacked when,  after receiving a promised article, the author wrote, "What is next Cheryl Lynn?" and he went on to offer a few topics. It actually brought misty tears to my eyes that readership sees this continuing and plan to be a part of it's success!

What is in my Routes for 2015? 
We have seen numerous columns these past two years, and as appropriate they will appear in upcoming editions.
Here are some of the columns:
  • Out With the Old, In With the Review for reviews of rally software for mobile devices and computers - both for rally competition and organizer ease.
  • Checkpoint Chat for the monthly communique with, and from, the Chairman of the SCCA RoadRally Board Rich Bireta
  •  Photo of the Month is for captured moments from rally events - people, action (such that we have while competing and trying to shoot) or creative.
  • Words from the Wheel because I am proud to be a member of SCCA, and I want to keep a line of communication for National Staff to my sport.
  • Save the Date for Road Rally Announcements this truly is for all motorsport clubs to provide promotion of their events and entice rallyists to enter - giving advance notice for planning travel as needed. 
  • Questions & Queries this is not just for SCCA road rally questions. Ask fellow rallyists the how, why, and what!

  • My First Rally because I enjoy learning how fellow rallyists got hooked. And who know, perhaps we will learn something from the past to help us in revitalizing road rally programs now.  
  • Rally Event Standings 'cause I was told Rallyists like to see their name in print! We did well when Bruce Gezon sent me the standings directly; perhaps we can get that started again for 2015!
  •  RRB Board Minutes & SCCA Championship Tour, Course, and GTA Standings
  • #comeroadrally

 

Sent in from Penelope Pitstop -

"There are too many damn choices! Facebook, Twitter, MeetUps (this is a National site with regional groups), webpages for our organizatioons (if current), and many area Forums. Oh, I suppose there are Press Releases to our local newspapers (now done by an email or online form) in our area or our television stations. 

 

Yet, what are you all finding works the best? Seems folks like rallying once they get there, yet how do we reach folks outside of the usual suspects?

Can you help out with your ideas, tried 'n true suggestions, and things we've thought about trying?

 

Send your comments and Cheryl has promised to post them all in next months' RReNews. She gave me a link, so click here to send in your answers for me and my fellow enthusiasts who are wondering the same thing!!"   

 

Do you have a rally question for our RReNews Community answer? Click here and send your question for the February edition!
SCCALinks
SCCA Links
JeanneMinutesSCCA RoadRally Board Minutes
by Jeanne English,
RRB Secretary
Here are the official Minutes from the Jan15 Road Rally Board meeting.

RRB Minutes - January 2015 

NatlRR2014SCCA National 2014 RoadRally Standings
Chuck Hanson, Pointskeeper, and his volunteer team have sent these final  2014 RoadRally Championships Standings our way! Click to download the Excel files below:
Here are the points for the Manufacturer's Championship:
2014 Manufacturer's Championship

Beginning with the February RReNews, we've been promised, by Hanson, that we will have monthly standings for the SCCA RoadRally Championships!

Stevens Rally Indicator HeadWestRallies

by Ian Holmes 

I'll admit it. Old things fascinate me. Whether it be old photographs of the towns I've lived in or old cars. I guess I'm some kind of nostalgist longing for the good old days.  

The road rally world of today is driven by expensive computers. Big black boxes that sit on the dashboard and tell you how fast/slow you're going in relation to your actual time, how far you've gone/got to go, even counting your time to the perfect arrival time. They can make the inside of your car look like the deck of a spaceship. Even now, these big black boxes are being replaced by iPad apps that do exactly the same for a fraction of the price. So, as a relatively new Rallyist, I find it fun to look back in time and see what people used then.

 

This is one of those pieces of equipment. A Stevens Rally Indicator or Stevens Wheel, very common in the 1960's and 70's. It's basically a circular slide rule. They came in two sizes 6" diameter and 9". I have both sizes. The larger one was the preferred size as the numbers were easier to read in the dark. There were other circular Rally calculators, but the Stevens was the most popular.

I've no idea what I'm doing with a slide rule, let alone two, after my e xperiences with them back in school. I remember having a small circular slide rule when everyone else in the class had straight rules.
 
"So Holmes." Said the teacher in Math class one day.  
"A circular slide rule. What's three multiplied by two?"

I diligently set about rotating the wheels and slider to do the calculation.

"Six" I said proudly, having worked quite hard to
make sure I had the calculation right.


"Well done." The teacher said.

To this day, I'm not entirely sure if he was having a joke or not.
I think I heard a few giggles go around the classroom.


So, how does this disc of plastic work for the Rallyist?
As you all know, the first thing you do when you go out on a TSD-rally is to perform the Odo check, to see how your odometer compares to the official mileage. This is what the E and M-arms are for. At the end of the check you set the M-arm to read the official miles and the E-arm to what your car's odometer reads. This takes care any measuring errors. Set the T-arm to the speed for the section of the rally and you're ready. In this picture, it's set at 43mph (miles per hour). A rather brisk pace.

 

You may need to know how long it's going to take you to drive 11 miles at that 43mph pace. You move the E-arm to 11 and then read off the T-arm. It says 19.8 minutes. As an experienced Rallyist you can work out what .8 of a minute is in your head. If you're less experienced you have a hundredths reading stopwatch that you're using to time the leg.

Another calculation you might need to know how is far you've gone (or need to go) in a certain time. Set the T-arm to the amount of time that passes, 11 minutes for example. Reading off the smaller E-arm it shows 6.45 miles. Calculations like this are the bread and butter of road rally.

Even now, in the 21st century, I have had entrants turn up to a Rum Runner Road Rally event using a Stevens Wheel and finish very high in the standings. Road Rally is a sport that doesn't have to be run using the highest of tech.

Right now it's something of a novelty thing to have. It would be fun to learn to use it properly and compete in a road rally with it.
BiretaCkptChatCheckpoint Chat
by Rich Bireta, RoadRally Board Chairman
 

2014 Road Rally Participation Study

When I joined the Road Rally Board three years ago in January 2012, I was surprised to learn that no quantitative analysis was done on the participation data for SCCA road rally events. There seemed to be a lot of tribal knowledge about the program, whether it was growing or shrinking, where the Regions with the strongest participation were, etc..., but there was insufficient rigor for my taste.

 

I took the SCCA's audit tracking spreadsheets for 2012 and 2011 and did some simple analysis. (These spreadsheets are used by SCCA HQ to track sanctions granted, contact info, fee payments, etc. They contain car counts for most, but not all events). I repeated and refined this analysis in January 2013 and 2014 and now for the fourth time in January 2015.

 

Here is what I learned from the 2014 edition of this participation study:

 1) SCCA Road Rally participation for 2014 was flat compared to 2013, and may have grown slightly. (A footnote on data quality here: Car counts for all events have not been submitted. I would put a margin of error on this data of +/- 2%).

 

 2) There were about 3,200 participants in SCCA-sanctioned road rallys in 2014. (1,600 cars, 2 per car).

 

 3) There were 125 SCCA-sanctioned road rallys in 2014, a decrease of 11% compared to 2013. This net decrease of 15 events was primarily due to a loss of events in two regions: Arizona Border (-11) and Washington DC (-6).

 

 4) The average entry size was 12.7 cars, or about 25 participants.

 

 5) 29% of SCCA Regions had at least one road rally event in 2014.

 

 6)13% of SCCA Regions have a significant road rally program (3 or more events in 2014).

 

 7) 10 Regions grew their entry counts by more than 10% in 2014. These Regions were: Hawaii, Land Of Lakes, Milwaukee, Finger Lakes, Detroit, New England, Texas, South Jersey, Philadelphia and Kansas City.

 

 8) 2 Regions saw significant drop (~70%) in their entries and I worry about the future of these programs: Arizona Border and Washington DC.

 

 9) 2 Regions saw a large (~40%) drop in their entries: Arctic Alaska and Indianapolis.

 

10) The SCCA Road Rally program is most active in these 11 Regions (4 or more events): Arizona Border, Cal Club, Detroit, Finger Lakes, Indianapolis, Land O' Lakes, New England, Philadelphia, South Jersey, South Indiana, and Texas.

 

11) The SCCA Road Rally program is also active in these 4 Regions (3 events): Arctic Alaska, Hawaii, Kansas City, Milwaukee.

 

12) These SCCA Regions conducted one or two events in 2014: Allegheny Highlands, Glen, Lake Superior, Mohawk Hudson, Nebraska, NE Ohio, North NJ, Oregon, Ozark Mountain, River City, San Francisco, South Bend, Washington DC, Misery Bay, Steel Cities, St Louis.

 

I am asking Cheryl to include the complete study in this issue of the newsletter, and you can click here for the download. Your comments welcome!

 

If you would like to see the raw data for 2013 and 2014, I'd be happy to send it along with the only request being that you share any insight you glean from this data with myself and the broader road rally community. You can email me directly by clicking here. I would love to here from you!  

 

Rich Bireta 

RRB Chairman

 



Why the '69 Z-28 Camaro?Z28Camaro 

by Cheryl Lynn  

Like Ian Holmes, I too like the history of back in the day! Only, I remember when folks competed with Zeron 880's, used Stevens Rally Indicators in calculating time, shortwave radios were used for setting clocks (well, the geeky ones who were in the hunt of Championships), and Larry Reid's Rally Tables were in Navigator's laps! Yes! I've been doing this over forty-years!! A few years back I was at the home of former rallyists and on the table in a fruit bowl were five Curta Calculators - it was a stunning display!

Me? Jennifer Elise and I used a Mickey Mouse pocketwatch when we started; we ran in her families Datsun B210. Yup! his little arms went around for the minute and hour hands. Yet, her Driver to my Navigator had us finish respectfully in the standings. I have many fond memories from that heyday of rallying. There was a good group of all ages and all makes of vehicle too. My first rally was in a 4-door 1963 Chevrolet. A saloon car, as Gordon Carlson liked to call it.

I digress...onto the '69 Z-28!
It started like this

  

Then, I sent this email:
Dear tradetowin_1, 
Greetings from Alaska! 
I am writing about the Stevens Wheel, where you wrote, "....won many rallies wit this one." Who, are you? Did you ever rally with SCCA? 
I am hoping to win the bid on this, and hope I hear back from you on the above questions!

To which I received this email:
Good Afternoon,  
My late wife and I did the SCCA rally thing in the mid seventies here in the Mid-West.

While I was away in Southeast Asia, flying around as a RIO, for some of the finest pilots in the world...GO Navy!, she when out and bought a brand new 1969 Chevy Camro Z-28. She loved that car...beautiful dark blue with the white strips, ducted hood, all the toys.... 

To shorten the story, when I returned from the war and I settled down a little, we decided to go rally together. She drove, of coarse, her car and I rode "shot gun"...head down, looking at maps and charts...that's what I did for 6 years overseas, I was her RIO, (at times just as hairy as the skies over Nam).

We had a wonderful time together, her and her Z-28. 
I.e....that's the story of the Stevens Model 25. 
Regards, 
Bryan

We closed out with this:
Dear tradetowin_1, 
Bryan, my condolences on the passing of your wife. As I wrote earlier, your writing brought smiles to my face and your writing style proved you had been in the trenches rallying with a loved one. I have seen my beloved husband become deaf, dumb and blind before my very eyes on a rally, ha! And, in a moment it is over and we're back on course, ha!

Matter of fact, I was reviewing Bill's route instructions for an upcoming July rally and it was 106P - I was still in the hunt for the Stevens, back to reviewing 'n chat on his layout, 110P still in hunt, and then - "Crap! Honey, we missed the close of the bid." He felt bad and apologized the rally work took my eye away for the screen too long and then I shared, "I Won!!"

Bryan, your story kept me in the game on this one...I'd prefer owning one that has history vs. new in the box, ha!

Do you have a photo of your wife from back in the day of she and her '69, you and her at a rally, or the like? I would like to share and bring that time alive if you would be able to find a photo for me. As of this afternoon, I am going to write a piece on ebay purchases that are rally-related and it would be enhanced with a photo of you and she from back in the day - whether on a rally or just car related or one of you two! I hope you don't see this as an intrusion, yet it brings a smile to your face.

Safe travels, and I anxiously await your reply, 
Cheryl Lynn 
PS: Off to pay for my winning bid!!!

Which brings us to this:
No, I didn't get a copy of the photo, yet I can close my eyes and see them! Youth, muscle car, and the image of heads-down and eyes-on-the-road rallying - free spirits in pursuit of checkpoints 'n refreshments at rallies end!

I recently purchased my second Stevens Rally Indicator, and sadly a story of loss came along with it as well:  
Dear 67! I am very interested in bidding on this item #381104486480 Stevens Car Auto Road Rally Indicator. Can you please share how it came into your possession?

Her replies over the next few days:
My husband & I used to Road Rally in the 70's & it was his. Purchased new & used on MANY events including the year he & his navigator won the NWRC (Northwest Rally Championship). I was in a different car & used a Zeron Rally Computer which I previously sold.

We probably do know or know of some of the same people. I will dig out a box of our 'old stuff' as I should go through it anyway. This piece was Russell Downing's & he rallied TSD with his wife at that time Kay. I know he ran Norwester as a Pro Rally with a different co-driver. I rallied with Doug Foster, hubbie at the time, I'm Joanne.

It is sad, but after a 3 year battle with brain cancer & associated traumas, Russ passed away peacefully on Dec. 17, 2014. I'm dealing with all the paperwork & grief from that. I'll see what I can dredge up.

To close out the column:
I now own two Steven's Wheels, and I can now be on the lookout for two more that can be used a trophies for a rally when there is occasion for a recipient who will value it and more importantly use it in competition!

I gave the names from my ebay conversations, as some of you may know these Rallyists and had lost track of them as marriages and children came along and life went other directions for decade or two? The first rally computer I used was a Zeron880 yet I missed out on the sale of that equipment; which one of you now own it? The Zeron was a chunky thing, yet I was grateful that Wallace Lamar let me have use of it! I can close my eyes as see the red glow of those LED numbers whilst laying out rallies in a blue 'n white VW Bus!

Sometime, I'll tell you about my Curtas and how they came into my possession. It includes the line, "I don't know what this is, yet clearly, there are two people in the room that do! Let the bidding continue..."


How to Create a "Pan-Am/Starlite" Style Monte Carlo Road Rally CreateMonteCarlo 

by Joe Akerman   

I ran my first Starlite in 1988 and wrote my first "Into the Night" (ITN) Monte Carlo in 1992, so I've been doing this long enough to see some changes.

 

The heart of these Montes are the maps. Paper maps. The old Auto Club county maps of California were and are the best. Other maps, like the DeLormes, are more detailed, but the AAA maps have some great features for us. They leave out a lot of small, extraneous roads, but they show all the roads that actually go someplace. And the type of line for the road indicates its surface. The ITN rallies are paved roads only.

 

Also, the AAA maps indicate mileage from intersection to intersection, so they're great for calculating transit times. The Entrants can guess the speed for the road and do the math to get the time.

 

When I started, we would go out with the Auto Club maps and drive around for a couple of weekends, trying to find the coolest roads we could, and looking for potential traps. If we missed a turn for some reason, like the map has a different road name from the sign, then we'd try to work that intersection into the course, as the name on the map is the official name of the road.

 

Mileages rule these rallies. Using the official maps, as you run the course as an Entrant, you follow the map from intersection to intersection.

 

Take a look at the Maricopa map. Let's say you're trying to find a Checkpoint on "Western Minerals Rd" and that you're traveling up 33/166 from the south toward the town of Maricopa and the point where those two roads split. You follow 166 eastbound from the intersection for 0.2 miles. However, when you get there, that road is signed "Hazelton St". You turn right anyway, because the mileage is correct. About a mile south, the road bends left (unsigned) and becomes "Western Minerals".

 

That is a classic, map-based Monte Carlo trap.

 

So, in writing a rally, after you picked the best driving roads, and found your map traps, you'd lay out a course of approximately the length advertised. Next, you have to set up the Standoffs and Checkpoints.

 

The spine of these rallies is the Standoff-Checkpoint relationship, i.e., you need to be able to see the Checkpoint from the Standoff. Say, for example, you know that on a road up a mountain peak there should be a spot where you can see the valley below. To find that spot, you work with 2 cars (one at Standoff and one at Checkpoint) and at night (so you can see the flashing light).

 

Years ago we used CB radios instead of cell phones. So, as one car drove up the mountain, the other sat out in the valley on the deserted road where you want to put the Checkpoint. You'd talk on the CB the whole way. Suddenly the CB volume would shoot up. Line of sight transmission had just cleared the obstacle (the mountain itself). The car on the mountain would stop at the next turnout and flash a light toward the expected Checkpoint location, and the car sitting in the valley would flash back toward the Standoff. Both crews then put an arrow on the pavement so the crews on the day will know where to point things.

 

So, after the Standoffs and Checkpoints are located, the next step would be to drive the course at least once, start to finish, to measure it and verify your estimated times. If the times you guessed were off enough to make the rally too long, or the distance between breaks too great, you'd have to rewrite the instructions, and then run it again.

 

By the time you did the actual checkout run, the Rallymaster would have run the course 5 or 6 times. This is similar to many other types of rallies.

 

Now, in 2015, we have a few more tools. I use Google Earth to scout roads. I can go to street view to check pavement condition. I can see where there are good Checkpoint locations - in passing zones with adequate creeping room and a spot to get the timing car far enough off the road so the Entrants picking up their time can get off the road as well.

 

Then I can use Google Maps to lay out the course for time and mileage. I can figure out where fuel will be available and work in breaks every 120 or so miles.  

 

Also, I can use Google Earth to pre-verify my flashing lights. Just pin the Checkpoint and Standoff, draw a line between them, then trace your mouse along the line. Numbers at the bottom of the screen tell you the elevation. As long as there is nothing taller than the Standoff between there and the Checkpoint, you'll probably be able to see the flashing light. You still have to go out and physically check the lights, but you now have a much higher success rate.

 

So today, by the time we do the checkout, the Rallymaster has run the course 2 or 3 times at most.

 

That is the "how" and the "what". The other thing is the "why".

 

The "why" boils down to - what kind of rally do you want to write. Different Rallymasters have different aesthetics. Some Rallymasters like traps that NOBODY will get, so the Rallymasters can laugh and feel smarter than everyone else - this kind of rally is usually written to impress other Rallymasters. ITN tries to discourage this type.

 

Our preferred style is to have rallies written for the entertainment and enjoyment of the Entrants. Everyone should be able to find everything, but we should keep the Entrants guessing until the very last possible moment, in order to maintain the "pucker" factor needed for excitement. We like to see a lot of smiling faces at the Finish. Of course, the rallies can't be too easy, because without a challenge people won't feel tested. But if you have traps that, even after you've explained them at the Finish, the Entrant still doesn't understand...well, you probably won't get that person to come back again.

 

Keep it simple and concentrate on the best driving roads you can find. People always find their own traps anyway.

 

See you at Standoff.

 

This is the second part of Monte Carlo-style rallies by Akerman. Click  here for this article as a pdf-download. 


 

Road Rally Save The Date Notices!

 
Rally: Roads Scholar Regional Course Rally
Rallymaster: Jim Crittenden 
Date:  Sunday, June 7, 2015
Location:  Madison, Wisconsin
More info: Jim Crittenden  970-261-2144 or  Email or  Facebook
Join your fellow rally enthusiasts for this enjoyable course rally through the beautiful countryside west of Madison, Wisconsin. You'll enjoy the marvelous roads, great scenery, and interesting course following on a gorgeous Wisconsin summer afternoon. No complex logic, no hard to see signs, no homemade signs, simple main road rules, 110 miles, electronic spreadsheet scoring, and pneumatic timing lines connected to Timewise clocks. Difficulty is 3 on a scale of 1 to 10.


South Jersey Presents the W. David Teter Memorial Weekend March 28-29thTeterWKnd

Tradition meant everything to the Lynch and Teter families of West Virginia. William David Teter was born in Clarksburg but like his father, cousin, and son his first name was mostly unheard. Nicknamed Duke, he lived in Bridgeport where he became an accomplished athlete playing both baseball and football while also pursuing a musical talent playing the horn for local gigs. Like his educator parents he spent most of his life in a profession that perfectly suited him and his abilities. After graduating from his beloved West Virginia University he became the backbone of the engineering graphics and surveying curriculum at the University of Delaware upon his relocation there in 1968 with Fran, his wife and accomplished navigator of ten years, and Goldie, their rally dog.

 

Dave started rallying in 1962 in Clarksburg as part of his love of sports cars. Those early years were all about their Bugeye Sprite and TR-4, followed by a succession of Stingrays. They were good rallyists and started their pursuit of excellence in 1965 by joining the hundreds of accomplished SCCA rallyists around the eastern seaboard on the typical 500 plus mile two day Nationals that were demanded by the RRRs of the time. Mon Valley Sports Car Club saw the first of many dozens of rallies set up by Dave. His Appalachian Nationals for the Philadelphia Region became a benchmark of trap rally traditions and later the seventeen March Lambs of Brandywine Motorsport Club fame. As he continued to be a regular competitor, he won four SCCA National Rally Championships plus the prestigious vintage car Great American Race. He was the recipient of the Robert V. Ridges Memorial Award in 1985.

 

Reworking the RRRs was one of his projects many years ago. He felt the need to present a rule book that defined all of the basics so that ambiguity was eliminated from the evolving and difficult sport. He remained on the Rules Committee until his passing to add continuity to the process he championed. He remained an educator in his profession and his avocation being always available to the novice or pro for any discussion of any rally topic of their choice. He was a gentle soul who loved his sport, his teams, and his traditions and we all loved him.

 

Rally: March Lion National Tour and Course Rally
Rallymaster: Jim Wakemen
Date: Saturday, March 28, 2015
Location: Williamstown NJ

Rally: March Lamb Regional Tour and Course Rally
Rallymaster: Clyde Heckler
Date: Sunday, March 29, 2015
Location: Williamstown NJ
More information:  Jim Wakemen 856-228-9249 or Email

The South Jersey Region of the Sports Car Club of America, will continue their tradition of the March Lion Road Rally and March Lamb Road Rally events, yet this year it will also celebrate the rally life of W. David Teter over the March 28th-29th Weekend.

 

A co-founder of the Mon Valley Sports Car Club and active Rallymaster for the Brandywine Motorsport Club and the SCCA, David passed away July 12, 2014.

 

There will be a hosted dinner for all contestants and workers after the Saturday's March Lion, for which David had been a Rallymaster seventeen years. Both workers and competitors on the March Lion will receive a commemorative tee shirt. In honor of David and his enjoyment of a Tanqueray Martini, his friends will provide a drink to all adults to properly toast him.

 

Costs for the weekend are $150, yet teams can enter the March Lion for $120 or the March Lamb for $40.

 

Online registration is being set up, yet for planning travels, Car #1 is due to be done with March Lamb about 2:30PM. Rally Headquarters will be the Best Western Monroe Inn & Suites in Williamstown, NJ. A rate of $99 is being held thru February 27th, with just fifteen rooms set aside for the rally. Book directly with the Best Western (856-340-7990) and mention Sports Car Club of America for our rate.