Over the years I have speculated that during the year when the servants return, the state of Utah will have a sports team that will have captured the imagination of the sports minded Mormons to distract them from prophetic events that are taking place.
It just seems poetic and predictable that the final events of the last days might begin at a time when the hearts and minds of some of God's people are focused on sports and entertainment.
Obviously that is all conjecture and speculation.
Is this a sign?? LOL
Too Late for Grace?
In an unusual turn of events, John MacArther of Grace Community Church who refused to close his church during the Covid Plandemic has made a rather startling declaration about the American nation that has rejected God-Too Late for Grace
In the news:
The New York Post reported that the “Excelsior Pass” would officially launch on April 2, following an announcement from Gov. Andrew Cuomo on Friday.
What Constitutes a False Teacher?
The protestant world was rocked when it became public knowledge that the late Ravi Zacharias had been living a double life.
It turns out he had been a sexual deviant.
The Christian apologetics foundation that he founded became very successful financially and apparently acquired some massage studios.
Eventually some of the massage therapists that worked at the studios made some public accusations which were taken more seriously shortly after Ravi passed away.
The leaders of the Christian apologetics organization that he had created hired a law firm to conduct an investigation once the accusations became public and they felt compelled to publicly admit that he had been guilty of the charges that several women had made against him.
According to Wikipedia,
"Zacharias has been accused of exaggerating his academic qualifications and multiple sources accuse Zacharias of serious sexual misconduct.[8] On 9 February 2021, Miller & Martin, the law firm hired by RZIM to look into these allegations, confirmed their veracity.[8][9][10] As a result, RZIM issued an apology and subsequently announced that it would undergo a name change and remove all material related to Zacharias.[11][12][13] In addition, the Christian and Missionary Alliance posthumously revoked his ordination after conducting their own investigation.[14] HarperCollins, which owns the Christian publishers Zondervan and Thomas Nelson, also confirmed that it would cease selling books written by Zacharias and remove him from other published works."
Frankly, nobody was more surprised than I was.
Ravi was one of my favorite protestant Bible scholars and apologists, probably second only to Chuck Missler.
I have watched many of his interviews and lectures over the years and felt that the guy was a brilliant New Testament scholar with a charismatic personality and remarkable delivery.
I felt he was a master teacher who was able to shine much light on truth.
I still think he was.
I have watched with amazement how most of the high-profile religious leaders who once lauded Ravi's ministry have scattered in an effort to distance themselves from his past ministry once this information became public.
Some have even begun to categorically discredit everything he taught because of his immoral behavior which has come to light.
I don’t blame them for wanting to distance themselves from Ravi, I get it. I have experienced something very similar.
There are people in the Internet world that have done things that have caused me to want to distance myself from them.
To complicate things they participate in the ongoing use my recorded voice against my will, with the intent to deceive people regarding my involvement and endorsement of their own lifestyle and teachings. More details on that in future newsletters.
Nevertheless, getting back to the Ravi situation, I struggle with the effort to try and discredit all of his teachings based on his personal immorality and hypocrisy.
When this story broke I was heartbroken and realized that the public testimony of these women would destroy a forty year ministry and legacy.
Yet I must confess that I think they did need to be made public.
The scriptures give examples of private sins with private confessions and public sins requiring public rebuke and/or public confessions.
I initially wondered if these women should have made Ravi's sins public since truths that had been taught might be discredited.
One article about this sad event quoted an old saying which is sometimes attributed to Martin Luther:
“God can draw a straight line with a crooked stick”.
Clearly, all of us that search and discuss the teachings of Christ and related prophecies and church history are crooked sticks. "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23)
We are all mortal and imperfect and have all sinned.
One of the remarkable yet disconcerting things about God's work is that he uses imperfect and fallible people.
We all see through a glass darkly while stumbling around in the dark to some degree in our understanding of the gospel and our ability to live it.
But where do you draw the line between simply being a flawed mortal, crooked stick who is trying to do the best they can while making mistakes, vs those that are clearly and knowingly making choices to commit serious sins even though they know better?
What about leaders in the church and even people in the online blogging and podcasting community that set themselves up as scriptorians and gospel scholars while intentionally violating serious moral laws of God?
We live during dangerous and deceptive times. Those of us who interact online are unable to know anything about the personal lives of those that we rely on for credible and valid gospel insights.
The scriptures provide a checks and balances protocol on how the body of Christ should deal with immoral people when the true church is established on the earth. But these protocols require inspired local leaders who can discern whether a sexual offender has truly repented or whether they should be kept out of the congregation to protect others from sexual predators.
One of the definitions of adultery in the 1828 Websters suggests a definition much broader than what one might suppose.
"In a scriptural sense, all manner of lewdness or unchastity.."
The Doctrine and Covenants informs us that unrepentant adulterers who commit adultery in their hearts will ultimately not have the spirit and shall deny the faith and fear. They are to be "cast out" from the meetings of the saints (D&C 42:23, 63:16)
What exactly is the definition of a false teacher?
Is the definition of a false teacher limited to those who are blatantly teaching false doctrines or would it include those that generally teach the truth while living secret lives that are not consistent with their public teachings?
If a person is being unfaithful to their spouse on the side to satisfy the lusts of the flesh, while publicly making themselves a light unto the world online. Does God consider them to be a false teacher?
I recently communicated with an online LDS personality who had been unfaithful to his wife and I asked him if he felt a need to make a public confession.
He became very defensive and let me know that his personal life is between him and his wife and God, and that it is nobody else’s business.
“I am one of the week things of the earth!” he vehemently declared.
I do believe that typically personal sins are a private thing between a person and God. However, once a person becomes a public figure who presents themselves to be an authority on spiritual and prophetic matters, they need to be held to a higher standard. I think their privates lives might have an affect on more people, possibly requiring a public confession.
I think this is why the Ravi situation took the course it did among other Christian teachings who had been supportive of Ravi's ministry.
Furthermore, while I believe that Joseph and his brethren of the first laborers of the last kingdom are referred to by God as the weak things of the earth, I don't think there is any reason to suppose that prophetic designation has anything to do with any of us who are awaiting the return of God's true servants.
I believe a contextual reading of all of the passages relating to that designation refer to God's true servants who are authorized by God to speak with power and in the latter days, it refers to the first laborers of the last kingdom that will eventually return from the dead to thresh the nations by the power of God's spirit. ( 1 Cor 1:27, D&C 1:19, 35:13, 124:1, 133:59)
I think it is somewhat presumptuous for any of us who gain a little bit of knowledge as we suppose, particularly from the research of others, to think that we qualify for that designation because of the knowledge that we gain.
I think that only God can give someone the prophetic designation of being one of the weak things of the earth.
Pertaining to this line of thinking, I was surprised to get the following comment from a reader of this blog:
Watcher-
I was watching a program on HBO about a movement called NXIVM and a Netflix documentary called Wild, Wild Country about the Rajneesh.
Watcher, do you know how dangerous of an idea this intercessory offering of Moses and Joseph is? It's dangerous because false prophets could use that teaching/concept to justify all sorts of horrible things.
Thoughts?
I agree. There are people rising up who are using the intercession offering to justify their own sins even the intercession offering has specific application to the mind-blowing calling of Joseph Smith, not any of us.
Using Joseph's Transgressions to Justify our Own
Sadly, there is a propensity for some people to learn about Joseph's transgressions and his eventual reinstatement by the Lord in the 3rd watch and then justify our own flaws and take comfort in our own perceived reinstatement from unrepentant transgressions.
I believe that is a dangerous rationale. It is comparing apples to oranges.
It is easy to conveniently forget that Joseph sinned as a result of an intercession that he provided, because the sins of Israel were placed upon him in his prophetic role. We don't enjoy that excuse.
The research of Andrew Ehat
I have provided links to numerous documents about church history that provide pieces of the puzzle in understanding church history in my blogs.
One of the most popular is the paper done by Andrew Ehat titled “ Joseph Smith’s Introduction of the Temple Ordinances and the 1844 Mormon Succession Question” .
A few days ago I was surprised to see 35 downloads of that document in one day even though I have made no mention of the document in a very long time.
Although I don’t necessarily agree with some of the theories postulated by Ehat regarding the succession, there are two reasons I initially posted the document. One is to show credible historical documentation to demonstrate how Joseph Smith’s involvement in polygamy impacted the succession crises.
Secondly, the document provides compelling evidence that Joseph Smith did secretly practice polygamy. If you have not read it, you might find it interesting.
It is remarkable to me that some people feel that countless men and women, many of whom did not even agree on who should lead the church, including the highest leaders in the church who were the closest associates of Joseph Smith, somehow all conspired to lie about Joseph Smith's involvement in polygamy.
Some of the most noble men of the kingdom who did not sympathize with or accept the leadership of Brigham Young nevertheless testified of Joseph's involvement in the practice.
The testimonies from the numerous women who testified about their involvement with Joseph are just as compelling to me as the testimonies of church leaders.
In fact, their testimonies remind me of the nobility of the wives of Lamech and his brethren who entered into a secret combination to commit "works.. in the dark".
Those works included sexual deviancy wherein "the knew every man his brother".
However after Lamech revealed his dark secret to his wives, even they were so appalled at this abomination that they felt compelled to become whiste-blowers:
"because that Lamech had spoken the secret unto his wives, and they rebelled against him, and declared these things abroad, and had not compassion;
54 Wherefore Lamech was despised, and cast out, and came not among the sons of men, lest he should die."
In my view, the leading women of the restoration were noble women. They thought the world of Joseph Smith and had sacrificed much to accept the restored gospel. I think they felt compelled to tell the truth. I do not think they would have entered into a group conspiracy with Brigham Young to fabricate a lie about Joseph Smiths sexual involvement with them.
Despite the historical evidence of Joseph's participation being so compelling, in my view, the most compelling evidence is found in the prophetic biblical profile of Joseph Smith. Which clearly proclaims his transgression and even identifies what it is. There is nothing I can find in the ancient prophesies about a conspiracy of men and women to accuse God's anointed servant if being a sexual preditor.
The Stage is set!
I believe the time of the return of the Lord and His servants could be very close.
I believe this because Joseph Smith prophesied about his own angelic return from the dead and he explained what would take place just before he returned.
During his discourse Joseph read and translated some prophetic passages from the 24th chapter of Matthew from the German Bible.
He said:
‘And it will preached be, the Gospel of the Kingdom in the whole world, to a witness over all people, and then will the end come.’
He then elaborated on the passage that he had translated: “The Savior said, when those tribulations should take place, it should be committed to a man, who should be a witness over the whole world; [HC 6:363] the Keys of Knowledge, power, and revelations, should be revealed to a witness who should hold the testimony to the world.”
That is quite a different rendering of the passage than the one found in the KJV.
I always found it odd that the KJV warns against false prophets as a sign of the times, but does not testify of the appearance or existence of true prophets as a sign of the times.
The above translation makes so much more sense to me!
At that point in the discourse it was obvious to everyone that Joseph was referring to himself as God’s final end times witness that should have the keys of knowledge, power and revelations and hold the testimony to the world.
The Book of Mormon and the scriptures he brought forth as well as other patriarchal blessings and prophesies had clearly identified Joseph Smith as the primary end times witness over the whole world who held the keys of the mysteries.
.
However Joseph did not leave room for nuance as to who the passage was referring to. His next statement declared the passage to be referring to himself:
“It has always been my province to dig up hidden mysteries — new things— for my hearers..”
Yes, Joseph was the one that God had entrusted the keys of knowledge and of the mysteries in the end times and he is the true prophet spoken of in Matthew 24.
The promise of receiving and revealing the mysteries had been given to Joseph in section 42:61-65.
In Section 64 the Lord declares that Joseph held the “keys of the mysteries”
.
Clearly Joseph was referring to himself .
In section 43 the Lord warned the saints that if they wanted the mysteries of the Kingdom they needed to provide for the temporal needs of Joseph Smith:
12 And if ye desire the glories of the kingdom, appoint ye my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and uphold him before me by the prayer of faith.
13 And again, I say unto you, that if ye desire the mysteries of the kingdom, provide for him food and raiment, and whatsoever thing he needeth to accomplish the work wherewith I have commanded him;
That revelation would provide a succession prophecy notifying the saints that none other would be appointed besides Joseph to receive commandments and revelations for the church until he (Joseph)
“be taken if he abide in me”.
The prophecy then stated that
“none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him”.
Remarkably, the prophecy was fulfilled a decade later in Nauvoo. The Lord called Hyrum Smith through Joseph Smith and then Joseph resigned his position of prophesying for the church.
Hyrum was given the gift of receiving commandments and revelations for the church.
However, a prophecy in section 90 explained that Joseph and his brethren would nevertheless hold the keys of the kingdom in life and in death. This of course becomes relevant because of Joseph’s prophesied return to complete his mission.
Interestingly, section 90 prophesies that through Joseph and his brethren that held the keys of the kingdom, “the oracles” would be “given to another, yea even to the church”
And that is what constituted the power and authority of Brigham Young and the Twelve all the way down to the modern LDS church leaders. They have been given the stewardship over the written oracles that Joseph brought forth.
No other priesthood power is mentioned in section 90 or any other related passage as remaining with church leaders.
Regarding that stewardship, the following warning was given:
“and all they who receive the oracles of God, let them beware how they hold them lest they are accounted as a light thing, and are brought under condemnation thereby, and stumble and fall when the storms descend and the winds blow, and the rains descend and beat upon their house”.
It pains me to suggest that the modern leaders of the church have treated the scriptures as a light thing, teaching their flock the wisdom and precepts of men instead of the word of God.
No longer are the scriptures taken seriously, literally and reverently.
No longer are the teachings of the leaders of the church required to conform their teachings to the word of God that has been accepted by the law of common consent. Rather, it is the so-called doctrine of the so-called living oracles that takes precidences over the written word that has previously been accepted as the standard by which everyone, including leaders are to conform to.
Trust in the word of God has been replace with trust in the arm of flesh.
I believe we are now entering into the time when the storm is descending and the winds are blowing and the rain is beating down upon the house as prophesied in section 90.
All of this brings us back to Joseph’s prophecy in the Nauvoo Discourse that we are parsing through.
So lets return to Joseph’s discourse on Matthew 24 and God’s last primary witness.
After informing us that he, Joseph Smith is the last great witness, he continues to expound:
I have read it precisely as the words flowed from the lips of Jesus Christ–John the Revelator saw an angel flying thro’ the midst of heaven, having the everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, &c. (Rev. 14:6) the Scripture is ready to be fulfilled when great wars, famines, pestilence, great distress, judgments, &c are ready to be poured out on the Inhabitants of the Earth—
John saw the angel having the holy Priesthood who should preach the everlasting gospel to all nations,–God had an angel, a special messenger, ordained, & prepared for that purpose in the last days—
Along with the signs of preliminary wars, famines, pestilence, distress and judgments that are spoken of in Matthew 24, Joseph reveals a few other mysteries that the King James translation does not clarify.
One is that the false prophets spoken of in Matthew 24 will actively oppose the true prophets:
Woe! Woe! be to that man, or set of men, who lift up their hands against God and his Witness in these last days.–for they shall deceive almost the very chosen ones..
..false prophets always arise to oppose the true prophets, and they will prophesy so very near the truth that they will deceive almost the very chosen ones”
How will the false prophets oppose Joseph and his brethren?
It is happening all around us right now.
Who would have guessed that one guy would be claiming the right to complete Joseph's unfinished work?
Another guy living in a foreign country claims to be the reincarnation of Joseph Smith.
And yet another group claims Joseph is hiding in a cave while members of their group represent the reincarnation of Joseph's original associates in the work of the Lord.
Amazing.
A great mystery that Joseph reveals in this discourse is that one of the greatest signs is the great sign of his own return as the final witness who holds the holy priesthood to preach the gospel to all nations.
Joseph reveals that he will be the angel that John saw flying in the midst of heaven.
I believe we are very possibly beginning to see the above signs that mark the time spoken of in Matthew 24
From Joseph’s discourse we find that Joseph will return with the holy priesthood to begin the final work. Even the marvelous work. We also are informed that the false prophets that have arisen will not just be teaching and prophesying falsehoods, they will literally raise their hands in opposition to Joseph and the true work of God.
What is the preliminary prophetic event that precedes the beginning of the marvelous work?
The book of Mormon suggests that at the end of the 2nd watch, (which is where we are right now) just prior to the beginning of the 3rd watch, an unlearned servant of God will attempt to present the word of God to those that are learned. (See 2nd Nephi 27)
I believe the D&C refers to these learned leaders as those that sit in darkness.
It appears that the learned men that sit in darkness will refuse to read the word of God that is offered them.
However the leaders of the modern church will not be the only ones to oppose God’s last witness.
There are numerous fringe groups that have arisen who are claiming be or to represent God’s last witness.
Is Rob Fotheringham a Closet Snufferite?
Recently I have gotten multiple emails from readers asking me if I have listened to any of the videos by Rob Fotheringham.
They want to know what I think of them.
Yes I have.
He has posted five videos that I am aware of.
In my opinion, three of them have some worthwhile information in them. The other two demonstrate that he is a historical lightweight who has apparently been influenced by the writings of Denver Snuffer and others.
The three videos that have some noteworthy information in them are titled
“Rejecting the Fulness”, “The Prophetic Book of Mormon”, and “Jesus vs. The Perpetual Education Fund”.
In those videos he has simply catalogued what he has learned from other fringe LDS bloggers and authors about the apostasy of the modern LDS Church.
Much of the information in them is accurate and would be beneficial to those who are just starting their journey of awakening.
The other two videos that he has produced are also reiterating what he has learned from other fringe LDS bloggers and authors. Unfortunately the information he is passing on is false.
One of them questions the authenticity of the visit of Christ, Moses, Elias and Elijah as documented in section 110.
It notes that Joseph never publicly spoke about the event, which is true. This apparently gives brother Fotheringham heartburn, just as it gave Denver Snuffer heartburn.
However in the New Testament, a similar visitation took place and Christ also told Peter, James and John to keep secret what they witnessed on the Mount of Transfiguration for a designated period of time. Did that mean that the event never took place?
Historians have since documented the fact that Joseph had in fact privately confided in a person about the return of Elijah. That exchange is rather unlikely from a historical point of view had the event never taken place.
Fotheringham also erroneously claims that Joseph Smith always spoke of Elijah coming in the future, never in the past. That is not true.
And Fotheringham regurgitates what the Prices and countless others have claimed about Joseph Smith never practicing polygamy.
Despite the false information that Fotheringham is passing on to others through his youtubes, he seems to be a remarkable fellow.
From what I can ascertain, he is an attorney that worked for the LDS Church for about seven to nine years but has now gone rogue.
He was apparently over the Perpetual Education Fund and other programs while employed by the church.
It appears as if he has seen the hypocrisy of the church and is now calling them out.
It will be interesting to see if the church will take disciplinary action or not.
Heretical Beliefs of the Mount Nebo Cult.
Several weeks ago I blogged about the group down in Utah Valley that meet together on Mount Nebo to worship at an altar. I mentioned that their inner group of movers and shakers believe they are the reincarnation of the first laborers of the last kingdom from Joseph Smith’s ministry.
They think they are going to work in conjunction with Joseph Smith to fulfill the prophecies made in the Doctrine and Covenants relative to the ushering in of the dispensation of the fulness of times and the marvelous work and a wonder.
I have listened to several of their podcasters and it is shocking how much of what they have to say is almost word for word out of my blogs except for selected teachings that they disagree with me on.
After exposing how this inner group sits around looking at themselves in the mirror comparing themselves to historical pictures of the first elders of Mormonism to chose who they think they are, I got challenged by one of their newer recruits who did not take the reincarnation thing seriously.
He claimed that most members of the group don’t take that narrative seriously.
After checking with one of my sources I reconfirmed that in fact it is true. The inner group really does think they are the original servants of the restoration.
Anyway, I have finally gotten around to reviewing some of the additional beliefs of this group according to a member of the group. I thought I would share a few tidbits along with my own commentary on it.
1- Nature and Character of God: This group has rejected the nature and character of God that is taught in the scriptures and the Lectures on Faith in favor of the nature of God that is allegedly presented in Joseph’s King Follet Sermon.
It is my contention that Joseph’s revelatory knowledge peeked during the “revelatory sweet spot” of the early Kirtland years when Joseph received 90% of the revelations from God that have been canonized.
The trajectory of the accuracy of his revelatory teachings began to go down after December of 1834 as a result of his intercession in behalf of the latter day saints after they rejected the fulness of the gospel and failed to live the law of consecration.
The tricky thing is that the spirit of revelation would fall upon Joseph from time to time in Nauvoo even though it was mingled with some dialogue that was not consistent with the revelations he brought forth in Nauvoo.
It is really difficult for people to accept the fact that things are not always black and white and that discernment is always required to separate truth from fiction. Joseph was truly inspired when he said, " A prophet is a prophet only when he is acting as such" History of the Church 5:265)
For some reason, this heretical group in Utah Valley seems to accept most of the historical events that are presented in the fifteen year ministry of Joseph Smith that I have created, and yet, they simply cannot comprehend the intercession role that Joseph played despite the biblical profile of Joseph Smith that is so clearly laid out in scripture.
2- Plurality of Gods: In the so-called “Sermon in the Grove” when Joseph allegedly taught the King Follet Sermon, Joseph allegedly made the following statement:
I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and, in all congregations, when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.
One of the things that baffles me about those that place so much credibility in the above quote is that they are unable to produce any examples of when Joseph taught this doctrine of plural Gods during the Kirtland era!
How strange that it had been taught for 15 years and yet nobody can produce a Kirtland era sermon that deviated from the biblical explanation of God’s nature and character that deviated from the explanation given in Lectures on Faith.
Very strange.
3- Three general intelligences in the pre-existence: Another alleged quote from Joseph Smith in the King Follet Sermon is as follows:
I want to reason a little on this subject. I learned it by translating the papyrus which is now in my house. I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the God of heaven. "In order to do that," said he, "suppose we have two facts: that supposes another fact may exist—two men on the earth, one wiser than the other, would logically show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist. Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them."
Hold the phone!
Did Joseph really say that?
First of all, we are being told that Joseph learned something new from translating the papyrus in his home! I thought he was teaching as doctrine, what he had been teaching all the time?!?!
Secondly, does it seem odd to you that Joseph is teaching as doctrine, something new from a papyrus in his home instead of from the accepted canonized scripture or from a direct revelation from God?
Has it ever occurred to you that God never authorize Joseph to present the translation of the papyrus to be accepted by the saints as scripture?
Nearly a decade went by after the translation of the Abraham portion of the papyrus was complete and yet it was never canonized according to the pattern that God has ordained. (although years after the death of Joseph Smith the modern church would include it as an authorized canon of scripture)
And yet we are ready to discard the foundational doctrine of the church which had been canonized in favor of a new and conflicting doctrine from an illogical interpretation from the papyrus that Joseph had been translating in his home??
Don’t get me wrong.
I don’t have a problem with anything in the Book of Abraham as long as it squares with canonized scripture. However I do have a problem with the pattern that is being presented, describing how this new doctrine is supposedly being received and introduced into official church doctrine.
And further, I am troubled that it contradicts that which had been previously revealed and accepted as doctrine by common consent!
But I have not even gotten to the part that really bothers me the most. It has to do with taking a passage out of context.
Supposedly, Joseph said
"suppose we have two facts: that supposes another fact may exist—two men on the earth, one wiser than the other, would logically show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist-—two men on the earth, one wiser than the other, would logically show that another who is wiser than the wisest may exist. Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them”
That is a gross misrepresentation of what is being said IMO.
If you will go into the text, it is not talking about men on the earth. That narrative is being superimposed by the speaker.
The passage is speaking about the eternal world and how God created different classifications of spirits.
Further, it only seems to be speaking about three general classifications of spirits, not an infinite number of classifications of spirits.
Regardless of whether Joseph is being blamed for saying something he never said or whether he taught a false doctrine because his eyes had been blinded in his role as an intercessory prophet, either way, the passage does not appear to be saying what the narrative claims it is saying.
That is problematic.
And yet the Mount Nebo Cult has discarded the nature and character of God that is taught in the scriptures and Lectures on Faith based on the very suspicious and erroneous interpretation of a few passages from the papyrus that Joseph had in his house!
4- The “Only Begotten” and “Firstborn”: another strange precept of men that the Mount Nebo Cult teaches is encapsulated in the following direct quote from one of the disciples of Phil Davis and others of his brethren.
“God the Father said that Jesus was His ‘First Born Son’ (In heaven) and His ‘Only Begotten’ (On earth).”
The scriptures clearly state that the term “only begotten” clearly had to do with the spiritual creation of Christ in the pre-existence. The evidence for this is overwhelming. Here are just the first two passages that show up in a keyword search:
2 I am the Beginning and the End, the Almighty God. By mine Only Begotten I created these things. JST Genesis 1:2
27 And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and it was so. JST Genesis 1:27
All of the other keyword passages when interpreted contextually are consistent with the above two passages in validating the fact that the term “only begotten” is primarily used to refer to the Christ’s spiritual creation in the pre-existence (According to the Book of Revelation Christ was “the beginning of the creation of God” ) not referring exclusively to Christ’s temporal birth on this earth but rather to his spiritual birth in the creation.
Regarding the term “firstborn”-
The scriptures refer to Christ as the “firstborn among many brethren” (Rom 8:29) and “the firstborn of every creature” (Col 1:15) and the “firstborn from the dead” (Col 1:18)
As you can see the teaching of the Mount Nebo Cult has wrested the scriptures to discount and obscure the truth regarding Christ’s role as the only begotten of the Father.
They also teach a very confusing version of the Adam God doctrine which is somehow related to their above misinterpretation of scripture. It promotes the false teaching of Brigham Young’s that God the Father had intercourse with Mary. They take the narrative one step further and claim that Mary was the reincarnation of Eve.
Here is a direct quote from a member of the Mount Nebo Cult-
“did father Adam, have two wives by marrying his granddaughter. Mary, was “Eve” who was Adam’s wife born again on earth for the purpose to bring forth Jesus. (Doctrine of Eternal Lives). Eve, was the pre-earth mother of Jesus, as well as his mother on earth. If you were the pre-earth mother, would you have it any other way?”
(Mary being Eve is intriguing but since so many false doctrines are being taught, the source has real credibility problems)
5- Multiple Saviors: Another heretical teaching of the Mount Nebo Cult is as follows:
“Adam, also has his savior and when Jesus has completed his mission, He will ascend to be a father of a world and his firstborn will become his savior to his children.”
That contradicts scripture which affirms that Christ is the Savior and redeemer and creator over all creations. In the poetic words of Joseph Smith who was providing additional clarification to section 76:
“Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last, Are sav’d by the very same Saviour of ours; And, of course, are begotten God’s daughters and sons. By the very same truths, and the very same pow’rs.”
6- The Secret Council which took place in 2017: One of the foundational teachings of the inner circle of the Mount Nebo Cult (which apparently not all members are apprised of) is that the great prophetic council at Adam Ondi Ahman has already taken place.
It supposedly took place in 2017.
Presumably Joseph Smith gave the keys to Phil Davis and some of his brethren during this secret event but Joseph decided to stay in hiding. Here is a direct quote from a member of the cult:
“All of the keys were held by Adam, as Joseph Smith, taught and they have been gathered from all of the past priesthood leaders who held keys. All of the leaders gave a report as to their leadership and all of their keys that they held were given back to Adam, who gave them to Christ, so he can now rule the earth during the Millennium.
This council happened in 2017 and no one knew about it except a very few (leaders of the Mount Nebo Cult?) because the keys of the priesthood were removed from the earth when the Lord cast the church into the wilderness. The leaders of the LDS church are looking forward to attending this meeting which has already happened with thousands of old-time priesthood leaders from the other side of the veil attending.”
7- The Leaders of the Mount Nebo Cult are the Final Servants from Joseph Smith’s First Ministry: As previously mentioned, Phil Davis and his brethren believe they and some of their followers that they ordain, represent the reincarnation of the first elders of the restoration that lived during Joseph Smith’s first ministry. Here is another quote from a member of the cult:
“We have just finished the three- and one-half years of silence since the council of Adam Ondi Ahman, and now the heavens are beginning to open and the veil is being lifted from the eyes of those who are righteously seeking and the wheat is beginning to be gathered from the tares. The servants are now being brought forth to be taught and prepared to assist Joseph Smith, when he begins his mission and to prepare for those who are to be removed from bondage to go to Zion..”
8- The Holy Ghost is a Man: Here is another quote from a member of the cult:
“The Holy Ghost, administers the light and knowledge and the mind and will of God the Father and Jesus Christ. He has to be a personage of spirit so that he can dwell within a person of flesh and blood.
The Holy Ghost, is a title bestowed upon an unembodied man who has qualified to hold that office. It has never been revealed who this personage of spirit is, but some have speculated that it is Joseph Smith, Jr., because of the several statements he made and it was said that he was the greatest prophet that ever lived other than Jesus Christ.”
As you can see, this cult has mingled some of the fundamentalist Brigham Young type teachings with some of the foundational concepts they have taken from my blog.
The above doctrine contradicts Lectures on Faith, and the scriptures. Furthermore, I have blogged about the questionable source from which that heresy is taken from. You can read it here.
(BTW this information is being taught by a member of the Mt Nebo Cult.. he may not be totally accurate in his understandings. I invite leaders of the Cult to correct any misinformation that has been provided. )
The Five Sins of Denver Snuffer
I got a call from a friend the other day telling me that some young newly weds that he knows are being persuaded by one of their parents to drink the Denver Snuffer cool-aid.
He asked if I do a quick search in my blog posts and capture the five most blatant “sins” that Denver Snuffer has committed that prove he is a false teaching/ false prophet.
He wanted to present these five sins to this young couple to try and dissuade them from joining the cult.
My initial response was to reject his request because I don’t think the information will do any good.
I am familiar with the young couple and I know that they are scripturally illiterate.
It is my experience that any scriptural evidence presented to the scripturally illiterate usually falls on deaf ears.
Nevertheless, Mrs Watcher encouraged me to do the exercise. She suggested that I include the list of five items in a blog or newsletter so that others can share the information with others that are being deceived.
Again, I just don’t think it is effective to do other people’s gospel study for them, but since my friend made the request and since I got an approving nudge from the boss, I responded to the request.
As I did a quick perusal of past blog posts regarding Snuffer it was like going down memory lane. I must confess that the responses I have made regarding Snuffers claims and teachings has provided the opportunity to do some deep study on subjects I may otherwise have neglected, and I feel blessed for having had the opportunity.
So I have included a non-exhaustive listing of some of the more disconcerting Snufferite claims and teachings below.
I did not pick the five most serious ones. I am leaving that up to you.
Readers of this blog that think I have left some significant ones out may email them to me.
1- Denver Snuffer Taught a False Doctrine Concerning the “Second Comforter” (Other Comforter): Denver achieved notoriety and a huge following when, as a believing Mormon, he published a wildly popular “how to book” on how to receive the “second Comforter” which is more accurately referred to in scripture as the “other Comforter” or “another comforter”. (See Section 88:3)
In it, he strongly implied that he had obtained the second comforter and he presented himself as the poster child for those desiring to get their second comforter experience. Eventually he would become much more bold in his claims that he had spoken face to face with God.
In his teachings Snuffer strongly implied to his LDS audience that any member of the church with enough faith can obtain a personal audience with Christ which Snuffer believes is synonymous with the term “second comforter”.
He characterized himself as a regular, non-exceptional guy that hung out with bikers. He admonished his LDS readership to follow his lead and parlay their faithful church membership and temple covenants into sufficient faith to receive a personal audience with Christ.
The doctrine that Snuffer and others refer to as the second Comforter was brought to light by Joseph Smith. It is not easily identified in scripture unless a person first reads what Joseph Smith taught about it.
In his discourse on the subject, Joseph Smith clearly taught that the Holy Ghost is the first Comforter and the other Comforter refers to visitations by Christ which take place AFTER one has thoroughly proved themselves to God and been sealed up to eternal life, having had their calling and election made sure.
It is only AFTER a person has sacrificed all things and received their calling and election that the visitations by Christ to reveal the deeper mysteries will take place.
The huge doctrinal mistake that Snuffer made was in reversing the process and claiming that people can receive the second comforter BEFORE thoroughly proving themselves to God and BEFORE being seal up to eternal life by getting their calling and election first.
Another huge mistake that Denver made regarding the so-called "second comforter doctrine" is in assuming that ALL visitations from Christ (including Joseph Smith’s first vision, as an unlearned teenage boy) fall under the definition of the “Second Comforter” (Other Comforter).
That assumption is also false.
Christ can appear to people before they qualify to have the second or other comforter, but the visitation would not represent the “other Comforter”. The other comforter appearances of Christ have to do with revealing greater things that only those that have been sealed up to eternal life are allowed to be shown.
Here is what Joseph Smith revealed about the "second comforter" (other comforter).
“The other Comforter spoken of is a subject of great interest, and perhaps understood by few of this generation.
After a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins and receives the Holy Ghost, (by the laying on of hands), which is the first Comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness, and living by every word of God, and the Lord will soon say unto him, Son, thou shalt be exalted.
When the Lord has thoroughly proved him, and finds that the man is determined to serve Him at all hazards, then the man will find his calling and his election made sure, then it will be his privilege to receive the other Comforter, which the Lord hath promised the Saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John, in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Three 1838-39, p.150).
As you can see, Joseph Smith was quite clear on this topic. Snuffer completely misunderstands what the other comforter really is and when it really takes place.
At the time that Snuffer wrote his first book, he was a naive, believing member of the modern church. That was the context in which he first began his delusional experiences of being taught by Christ and teaching others how they could do it.
At the time, he was testifying that the church was true, that the leaders had the priesthood keys and that the temple covenants represented the gateway to getting the second comforter.
A few years after the success of his book of how to receive the Second Comforter, he began reading controversial blogs and posts that were critical of LDS Church leaders which caused him to become critical of church leaders.
At that time, Snuffer began compiling all of the criticisms that he learned about from others, into another book that he published. As a result of that and after refusing the request of church leaders to retract his critical book, Snuffer fell out of favor with church authorities and eventually realized that the modern church did not have priesthood power to administer the saving ordinances or to conduct valid temple ordinances.
This epiphany created a huge conundrum for Snuffer since he had predicated the ability to receive the second comforter upon membership in the church and its priesthood and participation in the Brigham Young Masonic Temple Endowment. After having this epiphany, Denver completely quit encouraging people to get their second comforter and he began preaching repentance and encouraging re-baptism.
IT APPEARS THAT SOMETIME BETWEEN THE PUBLISHING OF HIS FIRST BOOK, “THE SECOND COMFORTER” IN 2006 AND HIS MOST CONTROVERSIAL BOOK ” PASSING THE HEAVENLY GIFT” IN 2011, DENVER SNUFFER REALIZED THAT THE MODERN LDS CHURCH WAS IN A STATE OF TOTAL APOSTASY AND THAT HE HAD MADE A HUGE MISTAKE CONCERNING THE DOCTRINE OF THE SECOND COMFORTER.
It appears that Snuffer realized that his previous claims and admonitions about receiving the second comforter were false and that he had been deceived about the doctrine that had made him famous. His previous promotion and admonitions regarding the doctrine had set off a chain reaction resulting in some of his followers becoming deceived into thinking they had also received the second comforter.
Many of Denver’s followers realized the glaring inconsistencies in Denver’s rhetoric and blatant change of doctrinal trajectory and they have left the cult.
Nevertheless, many of his mesmerized cult followers simply have not noticed the contradictions and hypocrisy of his ever evolving and contradictory doctrinal teachings and claims.
2- Denver Snuffer has rejected and replaced the church articles contained is section 20 with a new set of articles: By so doing, Snuffer also rejected the law of the church as documented in section 42 which commands the church to “observe the covenants and church Articles to do them”. (see D&C 42:13) how can you observe and do them if you have rejected and replaced them?
Section 42 is not the only revelation that interrelates to and testifies of the credibility of section 20; Sections 28, 35, 51, 68, 97 & 107 all make reference to the ongoing importance and credibility and necessity of the a ARTICLES AND COVENANTS delivered and canonized as section 20,
The Lord has warned about serious consequences for those that reject his revelations.
The Snufferite Scripture Committee made the following statement: “Several LDS sections have been removed for the following reasons.. section 20 was written by Oliver Cowdery and constitutes church articles and covenants used to begin to structure the early church organization, they no longer apply”
That is not true. Section 20 was co-authored by Joseph and Oliver. It is true that Oliver had authored a different revelation during the previous year which included some similar concepts about how to manage the church. However the context of the revelation Oliver received was much different than the one they jointly received.
The articles and covenants given in section 20 are just as applicable today as they ever were. It is a very serious thing for a group to reject such a foundational revelation and create their own standard for managing the church.
It is very odd that the Snufferites want to “preserve” the restoration by eliminating the very scriptural foundation of it.
3- Denver Snuffer Rejects the visitation of Christ, Moses, Elias and Elijah in the Kirtland Temple as documented in Section 110 as a valid revelation: Initially Denver categorically rejected the historicity of Section 110 because Joseph Smith, Oliver Cowdery and Warren Cowdery did not publicly talk about it. Denver Snuffer made the following declaration:
“..Section 110 is completely unverifiable as a true revelation or vision, the three individuals with some information about the section, joseph Smith Oliver Cowdery and Warren Cowdery left no statement or explanation about section 110, further, in listing those who visited with them in their perspective testimonies neither Joseph Smith or Oliver Cowdery mention Elijah as having come. Finally, throughout the Nauvoo time frame including a month before his death, Joseph Smith spoke of Elijah’s return as a future and not a past event..”
4- Denver has Waffled Back and forth on the topic of Polygamy: He has contradicted himself multiple times on this issue. At one point early in his ministry, Denver taught that Joseph Smith received the sealing keys by living plural marriage.
In the talk he stated that he “takes issue with the speculative chronology in (Brian Hales work).. not with the underlaying proof gathered by Brian hales..” claiming that “it is appropriate in [his] view to accept the documentary stage that [is set out] in Hales three volumes..” In addition to acknowledging that the proof gathered by Brian Hales did prove that Joseph practiced some kind of polygamy, Snuffer claimed that Joseph Smith was the author of section 132, Denver has also claimed that the first 33 verses in section 132 do not address polygamy. Anyone reading the revelation at face value can see that is false.
Trying to keep abreast of what Denver thinks and is teaching about a certain doctrine is like trying to hit a moving target because he is always changing his mind.
5- Denver Snuffer Inaccurately associates the “record of John” in section 93 with “John the Evangelist” instead of “John the Baptist”:
How can Denver be a true prophet is he cannot even discern the meaning of the revelations that Joseph Smith brought forth?
6- Snuffer Waffles on when the priesthood was lost: Initially Denver taught that God withdrew priesthood when the Church Leaders unrighteously excommunicated him. Eventually, he agreed with the declaration in section 124 that the priesthood had been lost way back during the Nauvoo period. (See D&C 124:28)
7- Snuffer teaches the King Follett- Multiple Gods Doctrine which contradicts the scriptures and the Lectures on Faith which teach that the Father and the Son are One God with no other Gods before hIm: In one of Denver’s revelations it says:
“Just as the Father laid down his life for me, he trusts me with the lives of the sheep. I will sacrifice my life for the sheep.. you [speaking to Peter] approach the end of the path, you will have to let others stretch out your hands and likewise nail you, even if you plead to have the bitter cup removed. This He said to foretell the sacrificial death that is required for endless glory And then He added, You must follow after me..
This was an obvious reference to the end times servant referred to as David in the Old Testament.
There are at least 16 scriptures and prophecies that I have documented, declaring that Joseph will return to complete his mission. This proves that Denver does not need to finish the work that Joseph started.
9- Denver Snuffer misinterprets section 84:54-59: He erroneously claims that section 84 condemned all of the saints of the restoration for taking lightly the Book of Mormon.
The truth is that only a portion of the saints who were in the land of Zion were being condemned at that time while the other portion, who were in Kirtland, were actually coming out from under the condemnation.
Further, it was not just the Book of Mormon that had been taking lightly by the saints, it was also the revelations that Joseph had received.
The final condemnation of both leaders and members of the church did not take place when section 84 was given as Denver contends, rather the final condemnation took place in December of 1834 (
See this post)
10- Denver Snuffer erroneously taught that the Book of Mormon was a covenant from God that had never received an affirmative vote from the saints.
First of all there is no place where the Lord states that the Book of Mormon is a Covenant that needs to be entered into. Snuffer misinterpreted the above reverenced passages in section 84 in order to construct that heresy. The meaning of the passage refers to the new covenant of Baptism which is contained in the Book of Mormon.
Snuffer erroneously assumes that the “new covenant” of baptism that the Book of Mormon testifies of is referring to the Book of Mormon rather than the covenant of Baptism. (Baptism is the outward sign that a person has entered into the gospel covenant which is made possible through the atonement of Christ - (see Mosiah 18:10,13 Alma 7:15)
Snuffers claim that the saints of Joseph Smith’s day never accepted the Book of Mormon by vote is simply false. The following can be found at the JosephSmithPapers
“Articles and Covenants ready by Joseph Smith Jr. and received by unanimous voice of the whole congregation, which consisted of most of the male members of the Church”
11- Denver Snuffer Claims that Priesthood Authority is Not Necessary to Baptize: He has declared that sections 20 and 107 and other revelations do not declare priesthood authority to be necessary in administering the saving ordinances. (read the sections closely. They clearly speak of the necessary priesthood order and power of administering the saving ordinances)
12- Denver teaches that Joseph’s Nauvoo Discourses only speak of the future coming of Elijah which he believes proves that Section 110 is false.:
In an effort to discredit section 110, Denver said: “Joseph taught in his sermons in the Nauvoo period that Elijah’s return was in the future. I believe him”.
That is the proof Snuffer provides to justify his rejection of section 110.
Yes Joseph did speak about a future coming of Elijah in a sermon given on March 10 1844, however in a sermon given on January 21st 1844, he also revealed that Elijah had already come.
The sermons begins: “What shall I talk about to-day? I know what Brother Cahoon wants me to speak about. He wants me to speak about the coming of Elijah in the last days. I can see it in his eye. I will speak upon that subject then.
The Bible says, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord; and he shall turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to the fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
Then in the sermon, Joseph provides the chronology of what takes place after Elijah returns in the last days:
a) The keys are to be delivered,
b) the spirit of Elijah is to come,
c) the Gospel to be established,
d) the Saints of God gathered,
e) Zion built up,
f) and the Saints to come up as saviors on Mount Zion.
Clearly, the keys had to be delivered by Elijah along with the power to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children during the Kirtland period, BEFORE the gospel could be established
This had all been done before the Nauvoo era proving that Elijah had previously come during the Kirtland era.
The previous return of Elijah during the early days of the restoration is further verified in section 98 which declared that the saints had been given the power of “turning the hearts of the children to their fathers, and the hearts of the fathers to the children”
How else could the saints have established the gospel and obtained the power of turning the hearts of the fathers to the children if Elijah had not yet come? (see verse 16)
Those that understand prophecy realize that there are multiple fulfillments of prophecy and that Elijah had already come before the Nauvoo period.
Since the keys of the priesthood that Elijah had restored to the saints were going to be taken from the saints again, an Elijah figure would need to return again to restore priesthood keys and the power to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children.
So when did Elijah come during Joseph’s administration? In the JST Inspired Revision, Joseph Smith had revealed that Elijah the Tishbite of the Old Testament was the same person as John the Baptist of the New Testament.
Hence, the return of Elijah to restore the keys so the gospel could be established was fulfilled as documented in section 13 when John the Baptist (Elijah) restored the priesthood keys and the power to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children. Had Denver Snuffer been a true prophet he would have understood that Elijah had already come even though he will come again in the 3rd watch.
14- Denver Snuffer is Confused about the Fulness of the Priesthood (Melchizedek Priesthood) : Early in his career Snuffer referred to the visitation of Peter James and John to restore the Melchizedek Priesthood which is a false narrative promoted by the modern church. It has been clearly documented that the Melchizedek priesthood was not restored until 1831.
.
Eventually, Snuffer read other blogs and books and realized that the Melchizedek priesthood was not restored until the special conference at the Morley Farm.
After attempting to correct his previous mistake he then erroneously identified the date of the restoration of the fulness of the priesthood as being June of 1832 instead of June of 1831. Although I corrected him on this, he has yet to make the correction in his book.
Ultimately, Denver falsely teaches that the patriarchal priesthood of Abraham which is an inherited, lineal priesthood, from father and mother, is a higher authority than the Melchizedek Priesthood which is without father and mother. Joseph Smith taught that Melchizedek Priesthood was greater than that of the Patriarchal authority:
The 2nd Priesthood is Patriarchal authority. Go to and finish the temple, and God will fill it with power, and you will then receive more knowledge concerning this priesthood.
15- Denver Teaches the King Follet-Multiple Gods Doctrine which Contradicts the Scriptures and Lectures on Faith:
In one of Denver’s revelations it says:
“Just as the Father laid down his life for me, he trusts me with the lives of the sheep. I will sacrifice my life for the sheep.. you [speaking to Peter] approach the end of the path, you will have to let others stretch out your hands and likewise nail you, even if you plead to have the bitter cup removed. This He said to foretell the sacrificial death that is required for endless glory And then He added, You must follow after me..
That completely contradicts the nature and character of God described in the scriptures and the Lectures on Faith.
16- Denver has repeatedly Denied being a Prophet yet he produces revelations from God : In several interviews Denver has repeatedly denied that he is claiming to be a prophet, however, he published the following testimony of one of his followers in the book
”Preserving the Restoration”: “.. do not ignore what is written in this book. Please do not take this warning lightly… Receive the words of a true prophet… if you will not consider it, [the teachings of Denver Snuffer in the Book] but instead harden your heart, YOU WILL BE DAMNED”
The publishing of that warning is an endorsement of that warning and it shows along with other things Denver has said that he does claim to be a prophet.
17- Denver falsely claims he has not started a new church: Although denying that he has started a new church, Denver’s group of followers fit virtually every definition of what a church is.
Denver has mandated a different method of baptism and paying tithing.
His new church has a temple fund.
Every major conference his church holds places him as the last and most authoritative, primary speaker making him the senior general authority of the church.
Virtually every major decision and doctrine practiced by the group collectively must have Denver’s stamp of approval on it.
The Snufferite movement fits both the definition of a church and a cult.
18- Denver Rejects the Lord’s Unconditional Promise that the center place of Zion will be in the various places that have been designated, ie, Jackson County, Far West, Nauvoo, etc :
After identifying the places of Zion in previous revelations, in section 97 the Lord gave an unconditional declaration.
“surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place..”
Again, in another section the Lord gives the following unconditional promises:
“There is none other place appointed than that which I have appointed; neither shall there be any other place appointed than that which I have appointed, for the work of the gathering of my saints” (LDS Doctrine and Covenants 101:17
Despite the unconditional promise of God that the location of Zion would remain where it has been designated by revelation, Denver Snuffer simply does not believe God’s promise in D&C 1:37-39 that every promise and prophecy in the Doctrine and Covenants will come true.
He has said that Zion can be in other places that those mentioned in the D&C and he seems to have his eye on a property in the west where the Snufferite gathering will take place.
19- Denver Teaches that the LDS Restoration through Joseph Smith Failed to Restore the Kingdom of God on earth: Denver Snuffer has made the following comment- “Joseph’s first attempts to found the Kingdom of God failed“
It is true that the restored church that Joseph was instrumental in restoring fled back into the wilderness of darkness and rejected the fulness shortly after coming forth out of the wilderness.
However to say that Joseph’s attempt at founding the kingdom of God failed contradicts scripture.
Clearly the kingdom did not begin rolling forth and crushing the kingdoms of the world back during Joseph’s ministry, However, God had promised that the kingdom that Daniel spoke about, that Joseph was instrumental in setting would return in power and fulfill the prophecies that Daniel spoke about it.
But we are assured in scripture that the Lord did restore the kingdom through Joseph and that the keys of the kingdom were not taken from Joseph in life or in death. Further, God has promised that the same kingdom that Joseph restored and holds the keys to, will return to the earth and will fulfill the prophecies of Daniel. (See section 65 & 109)
(BTW Toward the ends of 2020 Brian Hales released a video critiquing a talk given by Denver Snuffer regarding Joseph Smith’s polygamy you can view it at this link.
While Brian and I do not agree on many things pertaining to polygamy, he provides noteworthy historical evidence regarding Joseph Smith’s involvement.
I realize that some people think that there was a global conspiracy involving close associates of Joseph Smith and countless women in Nauvoo to lie about Joseph’s involvement, but prophetic scripture agrees with the countless testimonies that Joseph was indeed involved.}
The Holy Ghost vs. The Light of Christ
I recently had an exchange with a long time reader of the blog
Hey Watcher,
Is the Light of Christ truly given to “every man” as our conscience or is it something else?
I believe it’s something else and supported by scripture. I wanted to share and get your thoughts on it.
We only see the term Light of Christ four times in the Scriptures.
Alma 28:14
14And thus we see the great call of diligence of men to labor in the vineyards of the Lord; and thus we see the great reason of sorrow, and also of rejoicing—sorrow because of death and destruction among men, and joy because of the light of Christ unto life.
Moroni 7:18-19
18And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.
19Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.
D&C 88:7
7Which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.
Now, on the surface we read in Moroni 7:16 that “ the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil”.
Seems pretty black and white, right? But is it?
Let’s look at the context for both Moroni 7 and D&C 88.
Moroni 7:3
3Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.
D&C 88:3-4
3Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.
4This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;
Why did Jesus have to leave in order for this Comforter to come? And where does it abide? In our hearts. It’s not a personal visitation from Christ, but his spirit to be with us — within us.
Once we have the promise of eternal life we have a truth which shineth within us. Which is the Light of Christ.
Take a look at Alma 28:14 again. They were laboring in the kingdom to help others receive eternal life and the Light of Christ. If they already had it, when why were they laboring diligently to help others receive it.
Alma 28:13 speaks of this great inequality.
13 And thus we see how great the inequality of man is because of sin and transgression, and the power of the devil, which comes by the cunning plans which he hath devised to ensnare the hearts of men.
If all men had the Light of Christ, would there still be an inequality?
Anyway, I’m traveling and wanted to share this with you. I appreciate any thought or holes you want to poke.
My Response:
I agree that the "light of Christ" does not appear to be just conscience although it interrelates with conscience. .
Arguably, the light of Christ seems to be defined in two levels. The first is to provide spiritual discernment between good and evil. The spirit of Christ enables a person to judge correctly between good and evil. (Moroni 7:18-19)
On a deeper level the spirit of Christ IS truth. (Section 88:6-7)
If in fact the spirit of Christ IS Truth.. it makes sense that it would enable a person to discern truth vs falsehood, or good vs evil
That being the case, the next question is, is it possible that "light of Christ" is just another term for "holy spirit"??
A keyword search of holy spirit shows some passages that essentially give the same definition as the light of Christ although other passages seem to give much greater detail.
A related question is, is the"holy spirit" the same as the "holy ghost". which is associated with similar attributes however seems to be more of a singular aspect of cleansing and changing the natural man into a new creature.. and sealing a person to eternal life which reminds me of Alma 28
"because of the light of Christ unto life."
There is huge overlapping of attributes if the three are not synonymous.. don't you think?
And the next question has to do with the GIFT of the Holy Ghost is it simply a more condensed and continuous manifestation of the same..
His Response:
Yes, seeing it the same way. Nothing more than what you’ve been teaching about the baptism of fire al these years.
My Reply:
I am actually not sure I have ever considered that the light of Christ is one and the same as the Holy Spirit... thank you for posing the question and related research.. I think I may do a post \using your email..
His Response:
My pleasure. It just occurred to me that we just assumed the LofC was our conscience.
My Reply:
I think the reason we assumed it is because we have been indoctrinated by the church and their orthodox teachings
I remember being taught all my life that conscience = "light of Christ"
I think the church has since backed off of that teaching a little bit and become more scripture based however I can still see remnants of that teaching doing a keyword on lds.org
Here is a notable statement from the site:
"This ability, called conscience, is a manifestation of the Light of Christ (see Moroni 7:15–19). A person’s conscience is a defense against situations that are spiritually harmful. Righteous decisions and obedience to the commandments bring peace of conscience."
The Light of Christ is the divine energy, power, or influence that proceeds from God through Christ and gives life and light to all things. The Light of Christ influences people for good and prepares them to receive the Holy Ghost. One manifestation of the Light of Christ is what we call a conscience.
My Response:
I agree. So much we take as gospel truth isn’t really gospel truth, but gospel tradition. 😉
This wraps things up for this email. Again, it is interesting to note that there is reason to believe that the return of God's last witness and his brethren is near.
False teachers and false prophets have arise to oppose him and his work.
We should pray for President Nelson and his brethren that they will submit themselves to God’s servant and accept the word of God that is presented to them, even though prophecy regarding the outcome is not encouraging.
There are several relatively new religious cults and podcasters that are positioning themselves to oppose the true servants when they return. Some are false teachers, some are false prophets.
We all need to treasure up the scriptures and take the Holy Spirit as our Guide that we be not deceived.
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