[read this; email countyexec@dutchessnygov, countylegislators@dutchessnygov]
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Fact: "Jeff Bezos’s wealth surge is unprecedented in modern financial history. As of April 15, his fortune had increased by an estimated $25 billion since January 1, 2020. This is larger than the Gross Domestic Product of Honduras, which was $23.9 billion in 2018."
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see new posts @ https://michaelhshuman.com -- real local economic development
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Bezos wants $14 million property tax break from Dutchess IDA for East Fishkill Amazon warehouse-- and mortgage/sales tax breaks-- shut it down.
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Doreen Tignanelli (Doreentig@aol.com) of the Town of Poughkeepsie: "I have been attending DCIDA meetings for a year now and EVERY applicant says their project will not go forward without tax exemptions from the DCIDA. The DCIDA then uses that claim to rubber stamp sales tax exemptions, mortgage tax exemptions and Payments in Lieu of Taxes (PILOTs). Amazon, a trillion dollar company, is making the same claim in the Poughkeepsie Journal (see just below: article itself): 
"According to the IDA documents, The applicant has stated that the project would not be feasible without the assistance of the IDA and that IDA assistance."  
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Recall email I sent out Nov. 2nd re: county budget-- guess what peeps this is a county budget issue too; don't forget-- https://conta.cc/35RTbbO
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Speak out Thurs. (11/19) 6 pm at next online public hearing re: county budget(!):
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Fact: Molinaro's proposed budget (p. 29) actually adds $451,000 to county funding for the Dutchess County Local Development Corporation-- which is virtually same entity, linked at hip, to Dutchess County Industrial Development Agency-- can you say "Corporate Welfare R Us"? I knew you could; recall Comptroller Robin Lois' report re: DCIDA/DCLDC/Cricket Valley etc.-- click here for my analysis of it as well:
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[excerpt here below from new Pok. Journal article-- link to full article just above]

Poughkeepsie Journal

Published 4:00 p.m. ET Nov. 17, 2020

Amazon has plans to bring a facility to East Fishkill.
The online shopping giant has proposed creating a 629,186-square-foot warehouse on roughly 124 acres of space that encompasses a portion of the former IBM west campus.

Sarah Lee, IDA Executive Director and Chief Executive Officer of Think Dutchess, said the current assessed value of the property is $5.2 million, and East Fishkill is the lead agency on this project. In 2020, $154,000 was collected in property tax revenue.
 
The new assessed value is projected to be another $95 million, about an $89 million increase. The 15-year PILOT would create an estimate real property tax exemption of roughly $14.3 million for the duration of the agreement.

The first year of the pilot payment is estimated to be $1.2 million. For context, on the first year after the PILOT expires, property taxes would increase to roughly $3.7 million, according to the application. Lee added that Amazon is asking for a mortgage tax abatement, a property tax exemption and a sales tax exemption. 

According to the Dutchess County Industrial Development Agency documents, “The applicant has stated that the project would not be feasible without the assistance of the IDA and that IDA assistance is a material factor for Amazon’s decision to commit to the East Fishkill location.”

The town has a special board meeting scheduled for Dec. 3 to discuss the project and its impact on traffic, East Fishkill Town Supervisor Nicholas D’Alessandro said during the IDA meeting.

The IDA board unanimously voted in favor of the preliminary project, advancing the project to a public hearing and a final vote. The next IDA meeting is scheduled for Dec. 9, though the date for the public hearing has yet to be set.

“Our confidence at this point is like 98%,” said Assistant County Executive Ron Hicks.

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AOC, Zephyr Teachout, et. al. fought good fight vs. Amazon tax breaks in NYC:
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The Town of Poughkeepsie's intrepid long-time activist Doreen Tignanelli (Doreentig@aol.com) recently emailed me this rather revolting development:
[DCIDA = Dutchess County Industrial Development Agency; DCLDC = Dutchess County Local Development Corporation]: "You may remember that Jim and I have been attending DCIDA/LDC meetings since December 2019. Look at what is on the DCIDA agenda for their November 12, 2020 meeting, mortgage and sales tax exemptions plus a PILOT for an Amazon warehouse in East Fishkill! Note: I do not recall a "No" vote on any requested sales tax exemption, mortgage tax exemption or PILOT since we started attending in December of 2019. [note here < me (Joel): DCIDA/LDC basically rubber-stamp everything]

[note: members of public not allowed to speak at this; public hearing to be later; contact DCIDA through: https://thinkdutchess.com/ida/dcida-board-and-staff/ ]

Agenda Item E. For Consideration and Approval of a Preliminary Resolution for USEF Tioranda, LLC and Amazon.com Services LLC(Town of East Fishkill) to induce a Project providing for a Mortgage Tax Exemption, Sales Tax Exemption and a Payment in Lieu of Taxes for an approximately $135,500,000 project for construction and re-development at the former west campus IBM site to construct a new warehouse/distribution center of approximately 629,186,000 square feet.
Meeting materials can be found at: 

Doreen Tignanelli 

"Information is the oxygen in which the fire of democracy burns. If you have information, it burns, if you don't, it chokes". D. DeBar"

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[on that note-- recall info here below sent out by yours truly to this list Aug. 3rd]

Pam Kingsley of Town of Poughkeepsie posted this to FB recently:"As I type this, I can feel my chest tightening because I am so angry. Front page of today's Poughkeepsie Journal, "Local IDAs Grant Second-Most Tax Breaks in State"--that is second most to Long Island. And who leads the way within the Hudson Valley? Dutchess County, giving away nearly twice as much in tax breaks ($22.6 million) to the next county on the list, Orange ($12.6 million). And what is particularly disgusting about this is the number of projected jobs created. For Dutchess, that $22.6M creates just 1,404 jobs. For $10M less in tax breaks, Orange's projects create 6,511 jobs. Drop down even further, to Sullivan County, its $8.9M in tax breaks creates 5,337 jobs. This county government, led by Marc Molinaro and the Republican majority legislature, is about giveaways with no accountability and planning for what really would benefit residents. This is shameful."
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pissed? good. you should be. as Joe Strummer said, channel that anger into power-- email countyexec@dutchessny.gov and countylegislators@dutchessny.gov-- tell them to turn off the spigot of of millions of tax dollars in corporate welfare and instead prioritize ordinary local people and small independent businesses for once
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DiNapoli: There were 13 projects each valued at $1 billion or more ($32.9 billion total), which was over 31 percent of the total value of all projects. The Dutchess County IDA and the City of Glen Cove IDA each had one of these projects, the Saratoga County IDA had two, and the rest were New York City IDA projects."
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DiNapoli: Over 30% of IDA projects across NYS resulted in no new net job gains(!)
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recall my recent email earlier this summer on how Nuvance (Vassar Bros.) got over half a billion dollars in tax-exempt bonds from Dutchess County Local Development Corporation over last decade-- while refusing (unlike downstate hospitals) to pay their workers hazard pay during ongoing pandemic:   https://conta.cc/3gZlwkh
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recall County Comptroller Robin Lois' Sept. 2018 audit of both the Dutchess County Industrial Development Agency and Dutchess County Local Development Corporation:
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...and my take on it as well...(over $100 million for Cricket Valley in one year alone!):
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kudos to Doreen Tignanelli/Tom Mclain for looking at DCIDA/DCLDC corp. welfare--
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fact: IDA's & LDC's are creation of NYS-- call Cuomo/state legislators: 877-255-9417
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Mid-Hudson IDAs Generous with Tax Breaks
July 26/27 Times Herald-Record (also published in Poughkeepsie Journal)

Mid-Hudson economic development agencies remain among New York’s most active and generous in offering incentives to attract and keep jobs in the region, according to new research by state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli.

The report covers the 2018 activities of industrial development agencies – nonprofit public benefit corporations that use tax breaks and other perks to boost local economies. The Mid-Hudson’s IDAs reported $143.2 million in net tax exemptions, trailing only Long Island ($171.4 million) among 10 state-designated regions.

Net tax exemptions are the amount of additional tax revenue projects would generate without tax exemptions. Orange, Ulster, Sullivan, Dutchess, Putnam, Rockland and Westchester counties make up the Mid-Hudson.

Watchdogs say New York’s 109 IDAs require careful monitoring to ensure accurate job creation and the economic multiplier figures; projects aren’t over-incentivized; and quality jobs are created for locals.
Last year, Medline Industries withdrew its Town of Montgomery IDA application after state Sen. James Skoufis, D-Cornwall, issued an investigative report questioning the need for a Montgomery IDA and a $17.6 million payment-in-lieu-of-taxes agreement for the giant firm. Medline is still building a medical supply warehouse in town.

Among the biggest and most active organizations in 2018 were the Dutchess County IDA (22 projects overseen, 1,404 jobs created, $22.6 million in net tax exemptions); the Orange County IDA (52 projects, 6,511 jobs, $12.6 million); the Sullivan County IDA (69 projects, 5,337 jobs, $8.9 million) the Ulster County IDA (33 projects, 1,096 jobs, $4.5 million); and the Westchester County IDA (68 projects, 3,273, $12.6 million).

“When used the way it’s supposed to be used, an IDA is absolutely necessary, especially in a time like this” with an economic downturn, said Laurie Villasuso, the Orange County IDA’s CEO. “As long as IDAs are being discerning about their choices, they can promote smart, thoughtful growth.”
daxelrod@th-record.com

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Our Guide Gives State and Local Leaders Tools to Fight Corporate Monopolies

BY JESS DEL FIACCO | DATE: 15 JUL 2020 | 

Washington, D.C. (July 15, 2020) — The Institute for Local Self-Reliance (ILSR) has published the first-ever comprehensive guide for state and local policymakers and activists seeking to combat the increasing power of corporate monopolies. More than ever, as states and cities contend with the devastating economic fallout from the Covid-19 epidemic, fighting concentrated corporate power is a crucial strategy to reassert a basic fairness into the American political and economic system. 

Called Fighting Monopoly Power: How States and Cities Can Beat Back Corporate Control and Build Thriving Communities, the guide is aimed at the state and local officials who find themselves on the front lines of the problems caused by excessive concentration — from the lack of good jobs to unaffordable prescription drugs to dying small businesses to the digital divide. ILSR’s new report lays out how leveraging state and local power to fight monopolies will create more and better jobs, help working families get ahead, and make our economies more diverse and resilient. 

“States were America’s first trust-busters, and with the federal government’s unwillingness to take action against today’s monopolists, we once again need state and local governments to lead the way,” said Stacy Mitchell, co-director of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance. “Concentration is not the result of inevitable forces. As this guide details, it’s a product of deliberate policy choices made at all levels of government. By changing their policies, states and cities can loosen the grip of dominant corporations, spur new businesses and jobs, reduce inequality, fight racial injustice, and strengthen communities.” 

The ILSR report underscores how the rise of a small number of giant corporations undermines our economy and our democracy in numerous ways:

  • Increased wealth disparities. While the wealth of the few has reached unprecedented levels, earnings for the average worker have barely moved for decades.
  • Exacerbated racial disparities. Corporations have imposed barriers on communities of color while extracting wealth from them.  
  • A marked decline in new business startups. Due to the rapid disappearance of small businesses, there are fewer competitors in the marketplace. 
  • More communities left behind. Rural communities and urban neighborhoods alike have been bypassed by economic opportunities and left to get by without basic services like grocery stores and hospitals.
  • A distorted political system. Companies such as Amazon, Comcast, and PG&E exert so much power over our political process that efforts to make our society better are regularly crushed by powerful lobbying efforts.   

The report covers a range of policy areas and describes the current market power in each sector and the policy drivers that shaped this power. It then provides a detailed list of the kinds of policies that states and cities can enact to curb monopoly power and develop local solutions and autonomy. It also highlights several success stories of state and local governments enacting locally driven policy solutions, including how:

  • North Dakota side-stepped Wall Street’s power and opted to maintain a banking sector that’s mostly in the hands of local banks and credit unions. 
  • San Jose, Calif., freed itself from the grip of a landfill monopoly and used the dramatic savings generated by increased competition to radically restructure its solid waste system to emphasize recycling.
  • Minnesota broke Xcel Energy’s control of electricity generation, compelling it to purchase power from community solar projects at fair prices. 
  • States like Ohio and Kentucky — no longer content to wait for the Federal Trade Commission to act — are regulating pharmacy benefit managers, such as CVS Health, to ensure that these powerful middlemen can’t use predatory tactics to run local independent pharmacies out of business and raise prices.
  • Vermont has tripled the share of its food produced in-state, from 5 percent to 15 percent, through an initiative to create local processing facilities, including slaughterhouses, grain mills, and produce distributors, and expand retail outlets for local food.
  • Wilson, North Carolina, built a city-owned broadband network that created competition with Charter Spectrum, supercharged economic development, and also innovated new policies to connect public housing and families with poor credit.

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Reminder-- the innovative, inexpensive, and proven-successful pro-small-business, new-economy initiatives of Michael Shuman, the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, and the Democracy Collaborative are ignored in Molinaro's proposed budget.



Email countyexec@dutchessny.gov and countylegislators@dutchessny.gov, and participate in Molinaro's two upcoming county budget forums online on Facebook (Tues. Nov. 10th at noon and Tues. Nov. 19th at 6 pm):

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[...and now-- from the more things change dept,,,]


Tax exempt: Millions in breaks for IDAs, but few jobs
NY industrial development agencies get more than $1 billion in tax exemptions to create jobs, spur development. But is it working?
Jorge Fitz-Gibbon USA Today Network

At a cost of $237 million, the two Avalon-on-the-Sound apartment buildings in New Rochelle were supposed to help revitalize the city by attracting millennials.

It never really panned out, but city taxpayers are still paying the price.

That’s because the developers of the two high-rises were given 30-year deals through the New Rochelle Industrial Development Agency that has them paying a combined $118,000 in property taxes every year, or less than 1 percent of the $12.4 million for which the buildings are assessed.

The agreement is hardly unique. More than 4,600 deals across New York state granted more than $1 billion in sales- and property-tax exemptions in 2014 for projects by industrial development agencies, or IDAs — projects that one state agency says fail to deliver the jobs that helped get them the exemptions in the first place.

An analysis by the New York State Authorities Budget Office found “little correlation” between private-sector job growth and IDA projects, and that one in 10 IDAs that began projects in 2011 fell short on promised jobs five years later.

Five projects actually lost jobs.

Yet, last year, more than 7,000 parcels of land in New York state, valued at nearly $34 billion, were exempted from state, county, local and school taxes by IDAs — leaving taxpayers to make up the gap.


And while the tax breaks were offset by payments in lieu of taxes, or PILOTs, they covered just over 40 percent of the assessed taxes.

“The IDA is a tool that has perhaps outlived its usefulness," said Michael Farrar, director of the Authorities Budget Office. "The bottom line is looking at the number of economic development entities, the number of new projects by IDAs and the change in private-sector growth. And, looking at those factors, it’s hard to see a relationship.”

'Public wealth'

Authorized by statute in 1969, IDAs were designed to boost economic development by offering financial incentives to private companies to build or expand operations, or to keep large employers in a community. IDAs have broad powers that include the authority to seize property for economic development through eminent domain, and the ability to offer tax-exempt funding to private companies.

Because property owned by IDAs is exempt from property taxes, the agencies can pass the tax breaks on to private companies as an incentive to invest in a community, and also have the power to negotiate PILOTs.

Proponents contend that IDAs have been a vital tool for retaining businesses, offsetting the state's high taxes and preventing major employers from fleeing New York for less pricey pastures. They have also created 235,000 jobs.

"Very few projects of any significance are done in New York, completed in New York, without a local partner and a state partner providing assistance in some way," said Brian McMahon, executive director of the New York State Economic Development Council. "That partnership is essential in economic development in New York state and, typically, the local partner is an IDA."

But critics counter that IDAs wield too much power. In 2014, the state's 109 IDAs were overseeing $83.8 billion in projects and gave out $1.1 billion in tax exemptions. Those tax breaks were only partially offset by $485 million in PILOTs, while questions linger over the jobs IDAs claim to create.

"We have seen a massive transfer of public wealth to private hands and the public has gotten almost nothing back," said Richard Brodsky, a former state assemblyman and now a senior fellow at New York City-based public policy group Demos.

Brodsky said IDA law should be repealed or drastically altered so that corporations have to deliver on their promises or pay back the subsidies.

“The same people who say the government should be run like a business don’t want it running like a business when it comes to money they’re getting," he said. “The only time this kind of socialism is acceptable is if they can show the project wouldn’t get built without the giveaway."

Big tax breaks

New York state’s largest IDA tax exemption belongs to GlobalFoundries, an international semiconductor manufacturer that took over IBM’s chip-manufacturing unit, according to statistics from 2014, the most  comprehensive database on IDA projects  currently available. The company received a net property-tax exemption of more than $25 million at its Malta plant from its 2009 agreement with the Saratoga County IDA.

Among other notable IDA exemptions in the state:

  • The 2001 agreement with Athens Generating Co. was the state's second highest. Fifteen years later, the company’s agreement with the Greene County Industrial Development Agency at its Athens natural gas plant called for $28.2 million in tax breaks and a $4.9 million PILOT payment, for a net exemption of $23.3 million.
  • In the Lower Hudson Valley, Regeneron Pharmaceuticals in Mount Pleasant led the region’s list of IDA tax exemptions. The pharmaceutical giant got a 15-year, $13.6 million tax exemption from the Mount Pleasant IDA in a 2014 deal to add 300,000 square feet of laboratory and office space.
  • The Bloomberg Data Center in Orangeburg had Rockland County’s largest IDA tax exemption in 2014. The agreement with the Rockland County IDA is for a $710 million facility and gives the company a $9 million tax break, with no PILOT in 2014.
  • The Albany city and county IDAs accounted for more than $12 million in combined tax exemptions in 2014, with nearly $11.4 million of it coming from the city agency. Companies made more than $5 million in PILOTs to offset the exemptions. The largest net exemption in 2014 was $820,160 for Albany Medical Science Research, one of 10 active city IDA projects at the Albany Medical Center that date to 1999.
  • The new owners of Rochester Technology Park, the former Eastman Kodak facility on Elmgrove Road, topped the list of 2014 exemptions for the Monroe County IDA. Tech Park Owner signed a 10-year deal in 2007 for the project, which included $2.9 million in exemptions and a PILOT of $975,000. Overall, the Monroe IDA doled out more than $40 million in exemptions in 2014, getting back 42 percent of it in PILOTs.
  • A $40 million project to build a nursing care facility and residences accounted for the largest tax exemption from the Broome County IDA in 2014. Upstate SK, the company that bought and subdivided property in Vestal in 2013, received nearly $1.8 million in exemptions as part of an agreement that ends in 2025. There were no PILOTs in 2014 because of a delay in beginning the project, but IDA records show that a $301,000 payment was made in 2015.
  • The $50 million project to upgrade IBM’s East Fishkill plant in 2012 led to the largest tax exemption from the Dutchess County IDA in 2014, with more than $23 million in tax exemptions. Signed in 2012, the 15-year agreement required IBM to make $8.3 million in PILOTs. But the property was returned to the tax rolls in 2015 after GlobalFoundries purchased the East Fishkill property as part of its purchase of IBM’s chip-manufacturing operation.

One of the more generous deals are the two agreements between the New Rochelle IDA and developer AvalonBay Communities, which include hefty tax breaks for as late as the year 2034 — even though both buildings have since been sold by the developers who signed the original deals.

The first agreement, signed in 1999, called for a 25-story residential building on Huguenot Street. In 2004, a second agreement for a 39-story building was signed. Each deal called for generous tax breaks that will last for 30 years.

The first building, now called La Rochelle, sold in 2010 for $107.5 million, In 2013, the second building, now known as Halstead New Rochelle, sold to DSF Group of Boston for $210 million. Last year, DSF also negotiated the sale of the first building, which will have the company owning both towers when the deal is finalized.

The city did receive more than $10 million in one-time reimbursements when the buildings were sold, including $8.9 million over four years in the first sale in 2010 and $2.5 million in mortgage financing costs for the 2013 sale. They also pay nearly $2 million in sewer, fire inspection and other fees every year.
But the lopsided PILOT deal remains in place — for up to 18 more years. In 2014, the buildings paid just $117,775 in property taxes.

Westchester County Clerk Tim Idoni, who was mayor of New Rochelle at the time the deals were signed, said he nonetheless considers the deals a success.

“All you have to do is look at the traffic in downtown New Rochelle at night-time," Idoni said. “I remember we had vacant lots down there for almost 10 years before the first brick went into the ground for those projects. Nothing was happening. We needed to jump start it and that was the jump starter.

"Do I wish that we had given them smaller exemptions? Sure," he said. "But nothing else was happening."

Enough oversight?

The number of IDA projects continues to grow. In 1999, New York state IDAs owned or controlled 4,281 parcels of land valued at $11.8 billion. By last year, 7,201 IDA parcels with a value of nearly $33.8 billion were exempt from property or sales taxes.
According to the Authorities Budget Office, PILOTs are also shrinking as a percentage of IDA property-tax breaks — the largest type of exemption. Last year, PILOTs made up for less than 49 percent of IDA property-tax exemptions, down from 72 percent in 2008.

McMahon, of the Economic Development Council, said that doesn't tell the whole story. PILOT agreements are temporary, with the land eventually returning to full assessments, he said. IDA projects typically improve the properties and increase their taxable value in the long run.

One success story may be the Yonkers waterfront, said Ken Jenkins, a former Westchester County Board of Legislators chairman and now president of the Yonkers IDA. Jenkins said the city's long-struggling downtown was revitalized over the past two decades, in large part due to IDA incentive packages that "primed the pump."

"I don’t think it’s an overstatement to say these projects have improved the quality of life and improved the investment in Yonkers," Jenkins said. "There’s a recognition that those dollars are precious and they need to be spent wisely.”

Greg LeRoy, executive director of Good Jobs First, a national policy institute based in Washington, D.C., said New York was one of only three states that tracks local property-tax abatements online. A new federal accounting requirement will call for property-tax incentives be reported as lost revenue by local governments and school districts nationwide, information that LeRoy said should be available to the public.

“The big picture is it’s a very corporate-dominated process in which the people that have the power, who really control the way this process has evolved dating back to the 1930s, want as little information as possible out there," he said. "They don’t want people questioning what they’re doing, they don’t want people to have a lot of information ahead of time."

Matt Gardner, executive director of the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit research group, agreed that New York has done a good job of keeping tabs on tax breaks for development projects. What it hasn't done is slow down on giving them away.

"The second metric, obviously, is continuing to give these deals, and by that measure, from a national perspective, I think New York policymakers, they haven’t stopped using tax incentives in this way," Gardner said. “So it’s great that the state has taken important steps toward measuring and quantifying the cost of tax incentives, but they haven’t moved away from their use.”

Last year, new legislation pushed by state Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli increased monitoring of IDAs in the state. Signed into law in December, it calls for uniform application and review criteria, and creates safeguards to ensure that the projects' goals are met — measures his office said will address long-running concerns.

“You could say we were somewhat parochial on this because, when we considered what does the public want, they want accountability for the money that’s being spent," said Gabriel Deyo, deputy comptroller for local government and school accountability. "The bottom line, though, is you talk to people in a community that has an IDA and they want to know what their tax dollars got for the money that was invested.”

But given the kind of economic clout that IDAs have, some experts remain skeptical.

“I think it definitely warrants more scrutiny,” said Ron Deutsch, executive director of the Fiscal Policy Institute, a non-profit group that focuses on economic policy. “Who’s watching the chicken coop? Is it the fox or the farmer? I think that’s something we’re all struggling with as well, whether or not we’re getting a good bang for our buck from IDAs."

Numbers questioned

The New York City IDA topped the state list of agencies with more than $75 million in net exemptions in 2014, according to data from the state comptroller. Second on the list was the Erie County IDA, which reported $33.8 million in exemptions, and the Yonkers IDA, at $31 million.

Farrar, the Authorities Budget Office director, said his staff analyzed IDA project performance by looking at 250 projects that were approved in 2011 and remained active last year. The analysis determined that the projects had created 9,698 jobs, 2,600 beyond their combined goal.

But he said that was largely due to four projects — in New York City and Monroe, Oneida and Chenango counties. And Farrar said there were questions about the accuracy of the numbers in two of those. For example, he said the first phase of a four-part project at Hamilton College in Oneida County reported 668 jobs were created in each of the four phases, when that was meant to be the total for all four phases combined.

"If we were looking at the big picture and thrown out these ones that we’ve looked at and said it appears to be a reporting error, we’d tend to be closer to the line of either we’re not hitting our targets or barely hitting our targets," Farrar said.
He said his staff also looked at private-sector job growth in areas where IDA projects had been undertaken and found "little correlation."
"The tough part is saying, ‘Well, what are the results that we want?’" Farrar said. "It goes back to, what is the purpose of having an IDA? If it’s strictly job creation and we can see that these projects aren’t necessarily doing what they were intended to do, then it is a concern.”
Twitter:  @jfitzgibbon