By Susan Whitmore

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watch video here: Watch Video Interview

After years of research, Dr. O'Connor wrote and recently launched her groundbreaking book, The Grieving Brain. The Surprising Science of How We Learn from Love and Loss. I believe what goes on in our brains after a loved one dies is of such profound significance that I am dedicating both April and May griefHaven newsletters to this interview.

With this book, Dr. O’Connor, who has devoted a lifetime to researching effects of grief on the brain, opens a whole new window into a hallmark experience of being human—grief. Making cutting-edge neuroscience easily accessible, she guides us through how our brains process both love and grief.

With pitch-perfect analogies and beautiful graphics, The Grieving Brain is both educational and entertaining. I highly recommend this book for all to read. In fact, griefHaven has made this required reading for our griefHaven support group staff.

SW: What made you get into studying the grieving brain? It was such an innovative and new area at the time which no one was delving into.

MF: I have long been fascinated by the brain and that the brain takes these relationships that we have in the world and turns those into what we call the gray matter that we carry around in our brains. That has always been so mysterious and fascinating to me.

SW: I would also imagine that at first it was difficult for you to get people to buy into you doing that kind of research. Was it difficult for you to get people to put the money into these studies—to give it their blessing?

MF: It was not considered an area for research.

SW: But you persevered. That must have been challenging.

MF: Absolutely. In fact, the first ethics board was very concerned that I would be asking people about their grief and losses.

SW: That is what we run into with grants—little or nothing available for grief. Though, since the pandemic, which has been such a horrible thing, we have seen some blessings because it has opened people’s minds and hearts about death and grief and started conversations sorely needed.

MF: That’s right … and hopefully more research.

SW: Yes, please!

SW: It is known by all specialties across the board, and anecdotally we see it in our work, that losing a child is considered the worst loss imaginable. In fact, at one point I recall the DSM stating, “The death of a child is considered a catastrophic stressor unlike any other.” In your work, have you found brain evidence as to this?

MF: You know, I think that something that the neurobiology of grief has taught us is that, when there is a bond first that gets encoded in the brain, and then grief follows because of having that bond, it means that it is those with whom we are closely attached that cause this deep grief in us. We all know what that deep bonding is like, whether it is falling in love with a spouse or falling in love with a baby. That bonding time changes the structures of our brain, so when we think about the losses that cause the most intense grief, we know it is those who are the closest to us, and clearly the death of a child is one of those.

SW: That is so interesting.

MF: Isn’t it? And I think some of that is because those are relationships that are critical for survival—our own survival and the survival of the other.

Certainly the intensity of caregiving for a child is more than for a spouse—caregiving for a child is a more pure relationship. That’s the important piece because somehow the death of a child feels like a failure. It is that sort of inherent caregiving and needing to provide for that child’s survival that, when that child dies, cuts us deeply.

SW: I’ve been watching this live eagle cam covering the lives of these eagles in Big Bear who are caring for their eaglet. A while back, the mother eagle was on the nest when one of four ravens who had been flying around in circles above the nest taunting and threatening the life of the eaglet actually landed on a branch near the nest. The mother, Jackie, was stuck sitting on the eaglet to protect it so she could not fly off to handle the threat. She was going out of her mind, screeching, squealing, and calling for the father eagle to come and help. The father did show up, and he chased off the ravens. (Click on link below to watch the happy ending.)

MF: That’s right, and it’s brutal! Those neurochemicals and hormones are really trying to motivate us to find that child when they’re not in our presence, because that is what you would do if they were alive.

SW - Guilt is a big part of what grieving people go through, but the guilt I want to discuss here is the guilt people feel when they actually feel happy or have a good day after their loved one has died. Is there a brain answer to why that is?

MF: I’m not sure that there’s a brain answer yet. Guilt is not an aspect of grief that we focused on in our neuroimaging studies. But I can say that I also recognize this experience that you are talking about, and it is often not the initial feeling that trips us up.

Sometimes a similar thing happens with the thought, How can I possibly be enjoying this when my loved one isn’t here to enjoy it as well? The way I feel about that is that each person comes to their own understanding, and my understanding might not be helpful to someone else, but I think of it this way:

SW: That is a beautifully precise way to think of the deep impact loving another has had on us.

SW: In your book, The Grieving Brain, you talk about “two mutual beliefs,” that our loved one is gone and, at the same time, that they will be coming home. Would you speak more about that?

MF: When we form a bond with someone, a part of the encoding of that bond is: I will always be here for you; you will always be here for me, with an emphasis on the “always” part. And while people are alive this is very helpful. They don’t have to be in our presence for us to know they are out there in the world. Otherwise, it would be impossible for us to send our children off to school every day or kiss our spouse goodbye every morning. You have to have that truly deep-seeded belief that you will come back together again at the end of the day.

I think this creates a lot of the disorientation that happens for people after the person has died, especially initially. The brain really is a prediction machine. It functions by trying to take the information it’s had in the past thousands and thousands of days and predict what will happen next. So when your phone rings, it is the natural prediction that it will be the person that you have picked up the phone to speak to over and over again. What happens is that you actually have that experience of he or she is calling me right now, and then you remember that can’t be true.

SW: Can you explain how and why our brains do that, and is there an effective way of speeding up the process of knowing that our loved one is gone and never coming back?

MF: No and a little bit yes.

Our brain needs lived experiences to update, to understand questions like Who am I now without this person? How do I operate in the world without my spouse? How am I a parent if my child has died? You need experiences in order to learn what the answers are for you.

When we avoid conversations or people or things that remind us of the person who is gone—and while doing so is understandable because it might be a way of preventing the overwhelming pain of that loss—in the long run, it doesn’t give us as many opportunities to learn what life is like now, without that person here.

SW: That is another reason why we need to get out and fully embrace life as soon as possible.

MF: Yes, and I am a person who believes that there is a place for avoidance and a place for denial because grieving is incredibly hard on our brain, our mind, and our body, so sometimes we need a break. The problem comes when we keep using that tool, and we don’t use any of the other coping tools, such as when we don’t also seek out support, we don’t also think about fond memories, and we don’t also try new activities.

SW: Exactly. There were times the first couple of years after my daughter Erika’s death when I would find myself in a place where sliding into that intense pain was not the right time, and I would say to myself, “Not now, Susan.” But it took a lot of work before I could control it like that.

MF: I use an example in the book of being at your child's soccer game, and you need to tell yourself that you are going to be right there, in that moment, cheering for him, and you are just going to pretend that none of the loss has happened so you can be fully present for him. 

SW: Can you address this idea of “complicated grief,” or, as it is now known, “prolonged grief disorder”?

MF: I also think it is somewhat all of those, but I think part of what happens when people hear that this is a disorder or that there might be intervention is that they misunderstand and think with intervention we are trying to take grief away. That’s not actually what intervention intends to do.

SW: What’s the criteria for complicated grief?

MF: Of course, there is this intense emotional pain and intense yearning for the person, but that's not all. Some additional criteria include things like feeling distant from those around you, feeling intense disbelief that this has happened, feeling that you’re not sure what your role in life is now, and feeling that life has become meaningless. There are a few others as well, but in addition to all of those, it also has to disrupt your day-to-day life, really interfering with your day-to-day functioning such that you are unable to get dinner on the table or spend time laughing with your grandkids.

SW: We at griefHaven use techniques scientifically proven to be effective, tools that we know will help with various aspects of grieving from a brain perspective. For instance, we use meditation techniques that we know will help the grieving brain. Other such tools include getting regular exercise, experiencing more green in nature by going outside, and protecting oneself by not watching repetitive tragic images on TV. What are some tools you would encourage people to use?

MF: You have chosen fantastic tools to work with. We did a study recently looking at mindfulness meditation and then also something called progressive muscle relaxation. It was not designed originally for grief, but it is a method where you scan your body, contracting and relaxing various muscle groups. We found that by doing the scan exercise, people were able to achieve a state of relaxation.

SW: Is that the one where you go through the body tightening and releasing?

MF: Yes exactly. And we found that both mindfulness meditation and progressive muscle relaxation led to less grief over time. But actually the progressive muscle relaxation performed the best.

The reason we think that might be true is that, for many people, it is difficult to learn mindfulness meditation when they are already having trouble concentrating. And for many people, it’s hard to figure out if they’re actually meditating or if they’re simply ruminating, which is not so great.

SW: I’ve found that classic mindfulness meditation by itself is often less helpful because people start going to those painful places and re-living them. That’s why we only use guided meditations. We start most groups with a guided meditation, and now we will be using the body scan exercise as well.

MF: That exercise is one that, once they have learned how to do it, they can apply in any situation. It also gives them a sense of a little bit of control over their experience. Having any control in a moment where you’re just overwhelmed can be a good thing.

Remaining questions and answers

in the May griefHaven newsletter.

Again, if you can't wait, you can watch the interview here:

For details, contact us at hope@griefHaven.org or (310) 459-1789